• Heaven or Hell: I Choose Hell

    WorshipMeA day doesn’t go by when some Christian doesn’t “warns” me about the looming threat of eternal torture which is sure to await me if I continue to 1. Lack a belief in their God and 2. Not worship their God. These are two separate issues and yet Christians only try to address the first of these demands.

    Christians often try to prove the existence of their God, but few if any try to make the case for why I should worship their God – especially considering that they make a point to “warn” me about that threat of eternal torture. It seems that most of these Christians seem to think that the threat alone should convince me to worship their God. This prompts me to wonder how these same Christians would respond to threats of torture in the real world.

    If some tyrant here in reality were to demand to be worshiped under the threat of physical torture, would these same Christians simply bow their heads and start worshiping? At the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law, I want to point out that in Nazi Germany, Hitler was all-powerful. In Nazi Germany, Hitler was God.

    A Christian recently told me that he “sure hopes” that I don’t end up in Hell. This Christian believes that an all-powerful deity very much might allow me to be tortured for all eternity if I don’t worship him. Or worse, that this deity would actively send me to Hell to be eternally tortured. Oddly enough, this Christian knowing that those who refuse to worship this deity will be tortured for all eternity has chosen to worship and praise such a deity. What does that say about the moral character of this Christian? Or any Christian who believes in the concept of Hell? This is why I often tell Christians who “hope” I don’t go to Hell, that I hope that I do go to Hell. If their God exists, it would be more moral to stand up against such an immoral deity than it would to worship such a deity for my eternal reward. Just as I think it wrong to collaborate with Nazis, it would be wrong to collaborate with God.

    Category: AtheismfeaturedHell


    Article by: Staks Rosch

    Staks Rosch is a writer for the Skeptic Ink Network & Huffington Post, and is also a freelance writer for Publishers Weekly. Currently he serves as the head of the Philadelphia Coalition of Reason and is a stay-at-home dad.


    1. This reminds me of a point I’ve wanted to share here. This blog seems like the best of your articles for my comment. (*Wanna skip through to my main point? Look down for the *.)

      I believe that I am now an atheist. I wasn’t always. I was, like many, born into the Catholic Church. I was an altar boy and was certain to become a priest as a childhood dream. But, my disillusionment began when I was an adolescent, too hungover from last nights party to make it to Sunday Mass.

      When I quit drinking in my early 20’s I tried to rekindle my relationship with the church. I also joined AA – whole ‘nuther concept of the ‘higher power’. Well that failed, the church part. The AA part kept me sober for 20 years.

      During that time I got myself baptized as a Mormon, Unity School of Christianity, Methodist and another born again church. I also quit that and in 2009 attempted once more to return to the Catholic Church. In January of 2013 I was in a crisis and prayed so hard for a sign or response to what for me was a huge crisis but really on the outside was a trivial matter. But I became so aware of dead silence in my praying. From that point onward until know I realized that all through my life I was ‘acting as if’ and it never became manifest with true faith. I knew that this was my best option. My emotional and mental health were at stake because I was filled with guilt, shame, insecurity, temptation and evil thoughts.

      Since then I have been healthier in my mind. I am more relaxed and less dependent on others as well as prayer. The word hope means something different today Having Optimistic Positive Expectations = HOPE for me.

      *My main point and question is this:
      I have been ‘saved’ multiple times. I earnestly tried to believe at those times and with emotionalism had some euphoric moments. But the real kicker is that according to Jesus Christ, if I offered up my soul to His Salvation I was truly saved forever. So, since He wasn’t about to get back up on the cross for me (because He didn’t need to) I am saved. He never breaks His promises – right?

      Now I am an atheist – a person who lacks belief in (for me) all things spiritual. I am banking on science and facts in my life. Only hunches I live by are from my own intellect.

      But, just in case I am wrong, there is no reason why if all those religious Christians are right, that I will be in heaven for sure. I haven’t renounced that what I believed. I announce that I now lack belief.

      So either way, I’ll die and be gone forever or go to heaven forever – it’s got to be a Win-Win.

      Anything comments?

      1. Kind of an Anti-Pascal’s wager I think. ‘If your God is worth worshiping then there’s no need to believe in him since any decent deity would save me just the same.’

    2. God does not “send people to hell” for not worshiping him. YOU chose hell, not God. If you, in reality, sent your son to be crucified to save people, and those people mocked, beat, spit on, and lied about your son, would you want them in eternity with you? The Bible states clearly that God desires all people to be saved. Evil cannot exist in the presence of God. YOU chose your fate. It’s not by God’s choice that people go to hell. YOU owe that to yourself and your hatred and animosity toward him.

      1. Thanks for your comment Loren. I actually mentioned that many Christians merely believe that God allows us to be tortured for all eternity. So I agree with you that not all Christians believe God sends people to Hell. Still, God does allow it. He did (according to Christianity) design the whole system. If God desire is for people not to be tortured for all eternity, he could simply make that happen. He is all-powerful… allegedly. Now you are claiming that God, like Superman, does have one weakness. I guess Evil is God’s Kyrponite… and by evil I mean anything that displeases God.

        Here is the thing, I can’t really make an informed choice because I don’t have any evidence that any of this story is real. In fact, the evidence points against the existence of God and this whole mythology. But like I said in the blog post, if I could choose, I would choose Hell. I can’t in good conscience worship a deity that has to power to prevent billions of people from being tortured for all eternity (which I hear is a pretty long time) but doesn’t. Considering that this God allegedly created this whole system, it seems pretty immoral to worship such a deity. So yeah, I choose Hell and you should too.

        1. There are two senses of hell, one is where satan and his followers were sent for eternity, the other is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, hell has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory.

            1. You are choosing Hell because you are choosing to disobey God. The problem you are making is that you think questioning the ideas of an all-wise God makes sense. Of course God is going to do things you don’t understand, because everyone knows a lot less than he does.

              The second thing is that you think Hell is a better idea, because you think God doesn’t deserve worship. My first point describes this jist of this one: If you don’t understand why an all-wise and loving God would do something, it means that you yourself are not all-wise and loving.

              In other words, saying “Why would an all-wise, loving God do something like that?”, is saying that you have the wisdom and love

            2. Is saying that you have the wisdom and love, to judge someone who is all-wise and all-loving, which you don’t.

        2. God is the only creator, he has not asked for our validation of his decisions, we are servants and MUST submit to his will and worship him alone, Jesus was only a prophet and not his son, secondly your arrogance allows you to misjudge his powers because Satan has screwed up your logic by sophisticated counter arguments that appeal to ego more than reason . God does not care about what you think of him, and just like you think its cool to defy him in the same manner you would not have the privilege to speak to him or see him, while his angels do his bidding and throw in hell fire. Try one day and be a man, stand near the stove and put your finger in fire, see if you like the feeling. Yes God is irresistible and stern to unbelievers.
          In Holy Quran He says;
          God is Jabbar: “Allah is the one who obliges His creatures to do whatever He wishes. Man’s will is granted by Allah, so he can act only with His permission. “But you cannot will, except as Allah wills.” -76:30
          ~Allah’s will is imposed on all and no will is imposed upon Him. “Hes hall not be questioned as to what He does, but they shall be questioned.” -21:23

          ~It is reprehensible to give the name Jabbar to human beings. Jabbar
          applied to a man means a ‘tyrant;’ but a tyrant is always brought down
          by Allah. “So Allah set a seal on every heart which is proud and
          arrogant.” -40:35. “Frustration was the lot of every powerful,
          obstinate transgressor. In front of such a one is Hell.” -14:15-16
          abbar also means the One who sets right the affairs of His
          creatures: He is the Lord of the Universe “Who created me, and Himself
          guides me, and Himself gives me food and drink, and whenever I am
          sick, heals me, who causes me to die, then brings me back to life.”
          -26:78-81 Whoever loves to meet Allah, Allah loves to meet him.

          The name al-Jabbâr describes the nature of the One who is the ultimate
          restorer of the soundness, wholeness and righteousness of all things.
          For a human being, any claim to such irresistible power would be false
          pride and arrogance, but for Allâh it is simply the truth
          Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56

          They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. 5:37

          For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70

          And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance) 7:50
          t will be a hard day for disbelievers. On the day when the wrong-doer gnaweth his hands, he will say: Ah, would that I had chosen a way together with the messenger (of Allah)! 25:26-27

          But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. Thus We punish every ingrate. And they cry for help there, (saying): Our Lord! Release us; we will do right, not (the wrong) that we used to do. … Now taste (the flavour of your deeds), for evil-doers have no helper. 35:36-37

          I really feel sorry for the atheists… you can not win against him. Whether you like it or not he is your creator.

          1. oh yeah, a tyran is ALWAYS brought down by Allah, tell that to me again after informing me of the rulers of saudi and caliphates of islam who all have been brutes and tyrants and nothing more. One cannot trust the words assigned to God by these men or other men, the problem is just that. All has been manipulated by jabbars on earth. Those who profit and rule in the name of god without a holy decree, those who call themselves signs and representatives of God and protectors of his “house” on earth. Give me a friggin break. This is all untrustworthy nonsense.

        3. God does not “allow” Hell. He does allow FREE WILL, that is, you choose whether to be all eternity in communion with Him, or to be on your own. If you choose communion with Him and act accordingly, you will have an eternity of joy, peace, and happiness.

          If you choose to be all eternity far from Him and act accordingly, you will have an eternity in the absence of joy, peace, love and happiness.

          Now, what is misery? it is the absence of joy
          Now, what is war? the absence of peace
          Now what is hate? the absence of love
          Now, what is misery? the absence of happiness

          Basic philosophy. Hell is simply the absence of all the truly good things of life: love, compassion, justice, happiness, bliss, joy, fulfillment.

          If you really take hell so lightly, I invite you to do this. Go for a visit to Sing Sing, San Quentin and take a tour, pay attention to the inmates, see their faces and how they behave, because many of them will be inhabitants of hell. Then ask yourself if you would like to be all eternity with those people without any police, guards or justice system. If you want to get an idea of what hell is, imagine if they threw you nakedovernight in the showers or the hall of any of those two prisons, they inmates were left with their cells open and the guards went home. Because that is not even close to one trillionth of what hell is.

          Any person that does not fear hell is simply stupid.

          1. Wow, sing sing? I think I covered exactly that in the article. Also, you said that God doesn’t allow for Hell? Are saying that God is powerless to prevent Hell? That’s strange because the Bible days that he is all powerful and that he created evil. So it does seem that at the very least he allows it, if not directly sending people to Hell to be eternally tortured. As a reminder, eternity is kind of a long time. Are you sure you want to worship such a deity? What does that day about you as a person?

        4. I saw you have children. Let me ask:
          1) what do you think your children will feel when they read that their father is happy to go to hell?
          2) what sort of example do you think you are giving them?
          3) what if your children, by following your example, end up in hell? Would you like them to go to hell with you?

          1. Did you even read the article or just the title? I think I am teaching my children to make the hard moral choices and to do the right thing even if it means they will face negative consequences. What are you teaching your kids? Follow the all-powerful dictator who either sits idly by or actively tortures people for all eternity because they will personally be rewarded with a shiny reward? That sounds like a bad moral lesson to me. Think about it. Think about what I wrote in this article and consider it carefully. Don’t just try to “win” the argument. Think!

            1. Staks, you miss the point. Your kids will grow up. What do you think they will feel when you are no longer here and they read this?

              Atheist has the lowest retention rate, with a 30 percent adults remaining as such.

              I have already read this at least 100 times. What, do you think you are original? Atheists have the dullest hive mind on earth, they repeat like parrots everything they read.

              Atheism boils down to an argumentum ad ignorantiam: “I don t see God, therefore He does not exist”.

              If atheism is right, why would your children spend the ONLY life they have making moral choices with negative consequences? Why if both the just and unjust end up as worm food? Don’t just try to “win” the argument. Think!

            2. APC, you are straying a great deal from the topic of this post, but I do want to address a few of your points.

              1. What do I think my kids will feel when I am dead? I hope they will miss me and have fond memories of our time together.

              2. “Atheist has the lowest retention rate,” Yeah that is because atheism isn’t a belief system. It is a lack of belief system. So anyone who is religious did not retain atheism. But most lost their atheism before they could walk and talk due to indoctrination. So why it is technically true, it is a meaningless stat. Also, it commits the fallacy of argument by popularity.

              3. “What, do you think you are original?” Hell no. Most of the arguments against god have been around hundreds of years. Some even predate Christianity. This particular argument for example was taken by Plato. I took it from his book “The Crito.” Feel free to look it up.

              4. ” they repeat like parrots everything they read.” That’s just projection.

              5. “I don t see God, therefore He does not exist”. LMAO I actually wrote a blog post specifically about that. No, it isn’t about sight. It is about evidence. If you can’t present valid evidence for your claim, then there is no reason to believe your claim. This is true in every aspect of life. It is why you don’t believe in unicorns or magic fairies.

              6. “If atheism is right, why would your children spend the ONLY life they have making moral choices with negative consequences? Why if both the just and unjust end up as worm food?” The world isn’t how I want it to be; it is what it is. I would love to fly like superman, but there is a thing called gravity and like it or not it is real. So yes, it sucks that bad things happen to both good and bad people and that good things also happen to both good and bad people. I wish bad things would happen to bad people and good things would happen to good people, but that isn’t reality. Reality doesn’t care. What I tell my kids is that they should be good for goodness sake, and not because of any reward or punishment.

            3. The fact that you rejected my previous two comments says more that you did in all this conversation.

              Tacendo consentire.

            4. 1. Your comments were flagged to the spam folder automatically because they had multiple links.
              2. They were not actually relevant to the blog post.
              3. There were long rants.
              4. They were your attempt to hijack the post.
              5. Create your own blog if you want to rant.
              6. I don’t owe you a forum to spew rambling nonsense.
              7. I gave you enough of that already.
              8. I am usually pretty liberal about approving comments, but the last two were lengthy diatribes with multiple links that didn’t actually address the issues of this particular blog post. I will not allow my blog to be hijacked in such a fashion especially when your comments were automatically flagged. I rarely moderate. The blog network does flag potential spam, but most legitimate comments post without any say from me and that is the way I prefer it. Your last two comments were flagged and I was asked to moderate. I chose not to approve for the reasons above. Post a legitimate on-topic comment, without spam links, and it should post without needing my approval.

            5. Dear Stacks,

              You may consider my second comment a diatribe, but the first one was a scholastic argumentation for God s existence.

              You do not deceive me nor anyone, you just deceive yourself.

            6. Again, I did not delete your comment. It was flagged and I chose not to accept it because it violated the comment policy and I had already given you even warnings. It was a rant that strayed a great deal from the topic and had multiple links. Put it in your own blog and sent me the link and I will refute it publicly. But don’t attempt to hijack my blog with your off topic rant.

            7. Again, instead of leaving off topic comments that violate the comment policy, why don’t you send me a private e-mail and we can discuss creating a proper forum for this conversation. You attempt to play Jesus being persecuted will not be successful. I have given you way more slack than most Christian bloggers would give to an atheist. But I will not allow you to hijack this post.

              BTW, using fake e-mails to leave comments is very telling.

      2. Bullsh!t. I’m not choosing “Hell”, nor is anybody else! I choose to reincarnate as Hugh Hefner after I die. And if I get your “Hell” instead, then I DIDN’T get what I chose, did I? How can I be said to have chosen “Hell” if I chose something else?
        Also, how can I have spit on or beaten up Jesus, considering I’ve never met him (and strongly suspect he never even existed?) How can I lie about Jesus, if I honestly don’t believe there are any truths written about him?

    3. Staks-
      No Hell without Heaven and visa versa. By definition your believing in Hell means belief that Heaven in fact, does exist. The logical next step is committing to Satan or God . I do not believe you want to go to hell and searching for truth.

      We have redwood trees here in California that are 500 years older than Jesus. Jesus’ time on Earth is well documented. No question Jesus was here. The question is, was Jesus just a man or was he divine?
      I agree with the human “free will” you refer to that (I believe) God affords us, is a mystery.
      We can not have a static relationship with God… Easier for a rich man to put a camel though the eye of a needle than get to Heaven…
      The bible makes it clear we have to strive to put Him above all else.
      Faith is part of religion- remember what Jesus said to , (doubting) Thomas when Thomas had to put his finger in Jesus’ side for proof of Jesus’ resurrection.

      My guess is that God is not done with you Staks. When and if your truth turns to God, please use the same great influence and intellect you provide for Atheists to honor Him by using the same social media tools to reach lost souls.
      We both have kids and I pray for God to watch over their futures more than ever.
      May God bless you brother.

      1. Let me correct you on a number of points Richie. First, I don’t believe God, Heaven, or Hell actually exist. They are all completely made up. My point with this article is that even if it were all true (and it almost certainly isn’t), it says something about the morality of Christians like you. This is an issue you completely side stepped. Do you worship your deity of choice merely because you believe him to be all-powerful? How could you in good conscience worship a being who either sends people to eternal torture or who allows them to be eternally tortured by his inaction?

        Second, there are many sects of Judaism that believe in a Heaven, but have no belief in a Hell. From a purely logical POV, there is no reason why one must accept both. As it turns out, I accept neither, but I still wanted to point out the flaw in your logic. Also, If God is all-powerful, than he could created something that is illogical anyway… unless you are putting limits on what God can or can’t do.

        Finally, the historicity of Jesus is far from “well documented.” At best there is very little and poor evidence for his existence. And that is the best you got. Check out my article on the historicity: http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-the-jesus-myth

    4. I believe in and love God. I also believed in and loved my family -hope that they will go to heaven and I can get some weird attention, for once.

    5. Dangerous Talk apparently attracts dangerous nut jobs. Wow. Reading the comments here was painful! Poor saps, trapped in an imaginary world of crime and punishment. All for the “privilege” of eternal ass kissing. Smh.

    6. So many of these “arguments” (they aren’t arguments, they’re threats) boil down to ‘might makes right’. That’s been rejected for centuries, and rightly so.
      The ‘who are you to judge an all powerful God’ is particularly ludicrous — those who make this argument have zero problem judging their God. As long, that is, as the judgements are positive. The ‘who are you to judge’ or “you can’t judge” pseudo-arguments are self-refuting. They embed strong judgements about the nature and character of the divine.

    7. Some people are angry at God and can’t believe He is good because they believe He sends people to hell. But hell is self-chosen. God does not wish anyone to be condemned, but neither can He force Himself on anyone who does not want to see His face and be with Him forever. This is what true love is. Love is not manipulation. It can never be given or received by force. This is how much God respects us and loves us.

      Some may reply that even if there are people who do not want to be with God, if God’s love is unconditional, He could have provided them with a better place to live in and not have them live in a place where they shall be punished forever. But here we go back to man’s freewill. He can either choose God or choose to be away from Him. God is Light. God is everything that is good, pleasing, holy and perfect. God is beauty and God is joy and peace! To choose to be away from Him is to choose just the opposite of that. It is to choose darkness and every evil and imperfect thing. It is to choose hell itself.

      1. Do you worship Kim Jung Un? I’m going to bet you don’t… and yet we both know he exists. I guess knowing someone exists doesn’t necessarily compel one to worship them. That’s strange.

    8. Hello Staks, I have a question for you, please do you know where the earth end. I mean the last point of existence, both man and other living being, do you know the last place where nothing is on earth .

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