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Posted by on Jan 18, 2013 in Books, Gender, Heaven, Soul, Theology | 25 comments

Is there a gender schism in heaven?

Here is a great question I saw in the Guardian which raises a whole set of other questions, like all good questions do:

Are Christian souls in the afterlife as segregated by gender as we are on earth?

Souls. What are they, and do they engender gender, so to speak?

And if not, then what is it about a soul that makes it ‘you’ or anything to do with you? Is is representative of your body? And in heaven, at what age?

 

This reminds me of my heaven section in The Little Book of Unholy Questions (available from the sidebar, there):

141. At what point of your life do you get judged to go into heaven?

 

 

142. For example, which one would get into heaven? (This one’s multiple choice, God, so it should be easy!) A) a man who does evil for 50 years in unbelief, and repents, asks for forgiveness and lives virtuously for 2 months in belief. B) a man who does virtuous good for 50 years, gives up belief and then commits evil for 2 months. C) both. D) neither

 

 

143. If you suffered dementia for the last 5 years of your life, what would you be like in heaven?

 

 

144. In other words, in heaven are you defined arbitrarily by who you were (at any point) in your actual life?

 

 

145. On what grounds is it chosen as to at what point in your life your heavenly self represents?

 

 

146. In philosophy, boredom is seen as a lethal state in which to be, and this is why an immortal life is deemed as problematic. Death can be claimed to be an event necessary to give meaning to our lives. However, those who get to heaven are ensured an eternal existence. Without changing our mindsets, and thus constraining our natural inclinations (and free will), how could we possibly enjoy an eternity in heaven without getting bored?

 

 

147. If Hitler was truly sorry for what he did, would you forgive him and allow him into heaven?

 

 

One fruitful theme that I wanted to explore here was that heaven and the existence of free will without suffering and evil is incoherent. We are often given the free will theodicy as (at least partly) the answer to why evil exists on earth. However, if heaven can exist with free will and no evil, then this should surely be an option on earth, especially if God is as loving as he is purported to be. This very simple logical argument has devastating effects on whether you believe in heaven, in an omnipotent God or even in free will. Many theists such as Oxfordtheologian Richard Swinburne[i] try to answer this by saying that life on earth is a ‘test’ for humanity, with the goal of being morally responsible, avoiding hell, and getting into heaven. The idea of punishment or reward in an afterlife becomes moot without free will, and so free will becomes the central tenet of such theology. But, as Sam Harris explains in light of this theory:

 

Yet if heaven must exist, if there is no doubt that heaven exists, then we know that we are being trained here on earth to exercise a free will that will not be needed in heaven, a free will the exercise of which causes immense pain to many people, but a pain that will be miraculously eased in heaven. This is nothing less than a definition of torture. (Though presumably the likes of Richard Swinburne would argue that seventy years of torture versus an infinity of heavenly bliss is a “reasonable” experiment.) Heaven is not and never has been the solution to theodicy; heaven is the very problem.[ii]

 

There does seem to be this promissory note that any amount of evil and suffering on earth can be balanced in an afterlife. I’m not sure that this works or even if it is properly evidenced by anything other than faith.

Another fundamental issue with the idea of heaven is the implication that we are immutable, unchanging people; that the person we are when we die is the person we have always been which is the person we will be in heaven. This is loaded with massive problems. We are changing animals. I am clearly not the same person I was before my present relationship, before I had children, ten years ago, as a student, as an adolescent, as a child and so on. If I develop Alzheimer’s now, then I would be a very different person again. Access into heaven is defined when? Because if I had Alzheimer’s and my heavenly state was defined before the point of developing the disease, then surely this should be the same approach as for a person who became evil at the end of their life or good at the end of their life. A repenting sinner should be judged on their sinning if a person who becomes terribly evil only at the end of their life is judged on this and not the majority of their faithful, good life. Of course, if the soul does not equate to our conscious minds, then what does the soul have to do with our actions, and how can our soul be judged for those actions if it is not causally responsible for them?

It is a veritable minefield of troublesome theology. And that’s given the acceptance of the idea of heaven in the first place.

 


[i] Swinburne (1998)

[ii] Sam Harris (2006) “The Celestial Teapot” from Letter to a Christian Nation, http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-celestial-teapot/ (14/01/2011)

  • Andy_Schueler

    Of course, if the soul does not equate to our conscious minds, then what
    does the soul have to do with our actions, and how can our soul be
    judged for those actions if it is not causally responsible for them?

    The standard apologist response seems to be that “souls” do equate our conscious minds, but they need our brain as “receiver” to communicate with our physical bodies. And when a disease like Alzheimer´s damages the “receiver”, our conscious minds / soul are still unchanged and when a person was “saved” before developing such a disease, they will stay “saved”.
    Of course, this response is completely ad hoc and can be completely dismissed by pointing out that, even if there is a “spiritual world”, unknown immaterial forces still  cannot possibly interact with our material brain.

  • http://twitter.com/noelplum99 Patriarchae Persona

    I know the answer to 147 because, when i asked the question muyself, a number of christians gave me their knockdown answer.

    The answer is that hitler could not go to heaven. Not for the millions he killed and the further suffering he cause to millions more. All that could be scapegoated onto Jesus with a brief but heartfelt confession and show of remorse (in fact some would say not even this – you can’t escape your sinful nature, all you can do is ask jesus, through his grace, to carry the can on your behalf). No, Hitler could not go into heaven for the one crime for which there can be no salvation: he committed suicide.

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    You were truly knocked down!

  • Clare45

    According to most old master paintings, angels do not have sex organs, but cherubs sometimes do. I suppose they must be castrated as they get older. Oh, how do they get older? Anyway, no sex for eternity for all those good Christian souls.

  • JohnM

    Gender is a concept of the flesh.

    Why would souls have private parts?

    It’s not like they need to reproduce or go to the toilet

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    John

    No offence, but you would not get very far in gender studies. My partner’s daughter studies it as a Masters and we have many long conversations, and so I know a fair bit about gender theory. In fact, the term was invented precisely to differentiate from issues of the sex and physiology.

  • JohnM

    Patriarchae Persona, according to your knowledge, did Hitler ever repent? Did he turn his life around? Or did he take his wicked and evil deeds to his grave? Did he turn himself in or did he take the cowards path, dying like a rat in a bunker?

  • Andy_Schueler

    Trying the no true scotsman fallacy again eh ? 

  • JohnM

    Jonathan,

    Is it possible for males to have more than one gender?

  • JohnM

    Andy,

    I’ve told you guys many times before. In the case of being a Christian ( a follower of Christ ), we do have a “true scotsman”, and  he’s called Jesus Christ. Mkay?

  • Andy_Schueler

    1. Jesus Christ is a true follower of Jesus Christ ? Sounds logical. 
    2. How does this change the fact that you use the no true scotsman fallacy to discount John Calvin (for example) as a “follower of Jesus Christ” while you count yourself as one, despite a fact that you also don´t give a rat´s ass about his (alleged) teachings whenever it suits you ?

  • JohnM

    No, Jesus Christ is the “true scotsman”. And we are all trying to follow his example. So if in doubt of what a “true scotsman” is, look no further than Jesus Christ.

    As for comparing the life of Jesus Christ, to the life John Calvin the mass murdering sect leader of Geneva..  Where to begin?

  • Andy_Schueler

    No, Jesus Christ is the “true scotsman”.

    Even if this were true – completely irrelevant. You are still employing the no true scotsman fallacy. 

    So if in doubt of what a “true scotsman” is, look no further than Jesus Christ.

    Impossible, he´s either dead for almost 2000 years or mythological. 

    As for comparing the life of Jesus Christ, to the life John Calvin the mass murdering sect leader of Geneva..

    So you can´t be a mass murderer and a “follower of Christ” but you can be a notorious liar and a “follower of Christ” ? 

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    There are some theories that gender is not digital, but runs along a continuum. Richard O’Brien, for example, always considered this; hence “There is a continuum between male and female. Some are hard-wired one way or another, I’m in between.”

    Gender is not physiological, though there are correlations. Most feminists will claim that gender is predominantly encoded by society, not the biology. the amount that this is the case is open for debate.

    My point here is not so much about gender, but about your propensity to make claims about things which you are clearly not so knowledgeable about!

    No problem, though. Every day’s a school day, here!

  • JohnM

    Could someone have a gender contrary to their biological features? Like… Could homosexuals actually be males who like to have sex with females, in male bodies? Or females, trapped in male bodies, who like to have sex with males?

  • Andy_Schueler

    I’m aware of the attempts to redefine the meaning of gender. 

    You are still confusing “sex” and “gender”.

  • JohnM

    Gender: the state of being male or female

    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/gender

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    Sexologist John Money introduced the terminological distinction between biological sex and gender as a role in 1955. Before his work, it was uncommon to use the word “gender” to refer to anything but grammatical categories.[2][3] However, Money’s meaning of the word did not become widespread until the 1970s, when feminist theory embraced the distinction between biological sex and the social construct of gender. In the English literature, the trichotomy between biological sex, psychological gender, and social sex role first appeared in a feminist paper on transsexualism in 1978.[3][8] 

    Some cultures have specific gender-related social roles that can be considered distinct from male and female, such as the hijra of India and Pakistan.

    While the social sciences sometimes approach gender as a social construct, and gender studies particularly do, research in the natural sciences investigates whether biological differences in males and females influence the development of gender in humans; both inform debate about how far biological differences influence the formation of gender identity.

  • Andy_Schueler

    Hint: on questions relating to human biology, the world health organization has more authority than a dictionary.
    The word “gender”  is (unfortunately) sometimes understood to be synonymous to “sex” – it isn´t (just like the words “literally” and “figuratively” do not mean the same thing – although many people treat them as synonyms).  

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    Interestingly, I have taught a very young child (primary school.) with gender dysmorphia – a girl who thinks and feels they are and wants to be a boy. In other words, the sex and gender attributes are opposite.

    Which still does not get us on to gender roles (in society). 

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    Also, in biology, with regards to non-human animals, gender DOES (ie can) mean sex.

  • JohnM

    Wants to be a boy, as a physical thing? Or a social thing?

  • http://www.www.skepticink.com/tippling/ Jonathan MS Pearce

    There is argument as to whether gender dysphoria (dysmorphia) is medical or mental, what remit it comes under – it even differs between children and adults / adolescents.

  • Andy_Schueler

    Afaik, there are at least two sexually dimorphic brain regions where mtf transsexuals are more similar to cis-women than to cis-men and ftm transsexuals more similar to cis-men than to cis-women.
    That cannot be the only cause (if it indeed turns out to be a cause) however because dimorphism in these regions is only fully expressed between puberty and adulthood, but the symptoms of gender dysphoria are often noticeable before that.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NZMJ7JRYKH7WR6YTXJGG3PU65E John Grove

     [[As for comparing the life of Jesus Christ, to the life John Calvin the mass murdering sect leader of Geneva]]

    A single murder of Servetus doesn’t discount what Calvin taught about the bible. You hate Calvinists but your weak Arminianism and “free will” is just not clearly taught in the bible. You have been corrected on several occasions.