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Posted by on Jan 6, 2013 in Feminism | 78 comments

Dear Modern Feminists: So This Is What You’re Saying?

A lot of proud liberal parents are wondering why their liberal daughters (like me) have turned on their ideals in one specific area of the liberal agenda: feminism. Let me explain. You see, we were brought up to value equality, and the modern feminist movement sounds nothing like it. Further, modern feminism is vastly unfair to men, while also denigrating the accomplishments of independent, free-thinking women. While I agree that women have yet to reach their full potential in many areas, and while I don’t object to reasonable protection, legislation, and support, the demands I hear modern feminists making are neither reasonable nor rational. In fact, the entire movement seems focused on perpetuating the illusion of great disadvantage so as to profit those women who have poured their life’s efforts into an ideology that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. In sum, these are the arguments I hear modern feminists making, and as a human being who strives to live by the light of reason, I cannot possibly accept them:

1.   We are just as strong as men, yet we need men to escort us or avoid us when we’re alone because all men are potential rapists.

2.   We are just as smart as men, yet we need affirmative action programs in order to show it.

3.   We are just as capable as men, yet we need feminist men to defend us and speak on our behalves.

4.   We stand in solidarity with all women, yet we’re willing to defame and destroy those women who are successful without us or who dare to disagree with us.  (In fact, when possible, we prefer getting the feminist men to do it. )

5.   We have the same interests as men, so when we don’t seem interested in typically male pastimes, it’s the men’s fault for being such misogynists.

6.   We are just as powerful as men, yet we are perpetual victims. If a woman is not aware of her perpetual victimhood, we will shame her into admitting it, since ours is the only way to think.

7.   We decry sexism, but value paternalism.

8.   We advocate for equality and social justice, as long as everyone realizes that we are more important than anyone else.

9.   We are fully-actualized, independent human beings who do not ever need to take responsibility for our own actions.

10. We are creatures of reason, yet we find disagreement too “triggering” to deal with.

And yes, I know that I just don’t “get it,” but I don’t.

 

 

  • An Ardent Skeptic

    11. We believe that all women should be able to choose for themselves what they wish to do in life, but if a woman chooses something considered “woman’s work”, we will let her know that she has failed as a “feminist” by making that choice.

    Don’t ever tell a “true feminist” that you work as a seamstress. I held countless women back by working as a dressmaker and a stitcher in a clothing factory, don’t you know? “How are we going to change the attitude of the patriarchy if women continue to do these kinds of jobs? I should be thoroughly ashamed of myself.” (Of course, my work ensured that “true feminists” didn’t have to go to work naked.

    • bluharmony

      This kind of thing makes me all shades of angry. If some women choose to be stay-at-home moms, then I fully support them. If men want to be stay-at-home dads, then I support them too. I have no right to make others live and behave according to my rules and preferences, nor do I wish to.

    • Arcus80

      In the words in the Norwegian feminist journalist Marie Simonsen, “Real women do not bake cupcakes.”

      • http://tris-stock.co.uk/ Tris Stock

        So what sort of person does bake cupcakes? Sounds like a ‘No true woman’ fallacy, no?

        Just for the record, if my baking skills were up to scratch, I would bake cupcakes all the time. Does this make me a non-real woman, a non-real man or a real man one wonders.

    • Chill Chick

      12. We’ re sex positive, but we think all men are filthy rapey beasts who should cross the road to avoid us. And heaven forbid they should express or even think sexual thoughts about us, because that objectifies and dehumanizes us, and infects us with their beastliness.

      • bluharmony

        Forgot this one. xo

      • An Ardent Skeptic

        Thanks for the laugh! Unfortunately, though, it’s accurate.

        • http://twitter.com/Rocko2466 Rocko2466

          lol @ Chill Chick. Disturbingly accurate (as is the rest of this article).

  • http://dpreviewsucks.blogspot.com/ The whole truth

    Maria, thank you for having the guts and honesty to write and post that. Women like you are rare.

    Signed,

    A man who has been confronted by all of the contradictory attitudes/behavior pointed out above and then some, from many women throughout my life.

  • MichaelSteane

    Thank you for this. I hold to a conspiracy theory: namely that the demeaning of “women’s work” has used feminists as government stooges to push more people (women) into taxpaying roles.

  • ManWithPlan

    Women’s Rights are worthy of support. We should preserve them and advocate for them in the many countries where women tragically lack rights.

    Feminism is a hateful supremacist movement that has never, ever been about equality. Many well-intentioned Feminists genuinely do believe they are supporting equality, but that’s because they haven’t taken the time to really think critically about the movement they are a part of. As far back as the suffrage movement, feminists were very clear in what they wanted was NOT equality with men. Rather, they wanted the freedoms of men without the full adult accountability of men.

    Feminism has been profoundly damaging and hateful to men, boys, and the family unit while insisting on an ever-growing pedestal for women. This pedestal, while women do (unfairly) benefit from it, actually stunts her growth as a fully self-actualized human being. Growing as a person requires making the personal effort to reach your goals, and the learnings that come from experiencing the consequences of your decisions. Feminism privileges women on the former and protects women from the latter.

    And they do it by depending on the same premise that traditionalism is based on, which is that men must sacrifice for women’s provisioning and protection. Under traditionalism, that sacrifice came from fathers, husbands, and male members of the community. Under feminism, it’s the same although the State has stepped in to do a lot of the protecting and providing.

    If you actually look at feminist theory, and read between the lines of feminist advocacy, it becomes painfully clear they do not believe women have personal agency and they advocate a supremacist position over men. And just to hammer this point home, women who criticize their “sisters” on these issues tend to get tarred and feathered by the feminist movement and branded as heretics. As you probably shall be posthaste.

    Thanks again.

    • bluharmony

      While I don’t agree with you completely, I find it extremely toxic when people dismiss viewpoints such as yours as “misogynist” or “privileged.” That doesn’t do anyone any good. Men have every right to speak on their own behalf. While you and I may disagree as to what the suffragettes were trying to accomplish, I find you rational, reasonable, and supportive. So thank you. I think the more important question now is where to go from here, and I don’t think the feminist movement, at least as it pertains to the Western world, has the answer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/snoozeri.lostio Snoozeri Lostio

    This is the feminism that poisons everyone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4zSRkBMPng

  • jjramsey

    1. We are just as strong as men, …

    Citation needed. I have yet to see a feminist seriously claim, for example, that the average women’s upper body strength is about the same as that of an average man.

    2. We are just as smart as men, yet we need affirmative action programs in order to show it.

    Right, because it’s not as if affirmative action is never used to even out an uneven playing field.

    3. We are just as capable as men, yet we need feminist men to defend us and speak on our behalves.

    Need? No. Want? Sometimes. Unfortunately, many men are still more willing to listen to other men than to women.

    4. We stand in solidarity with all women, …

    Citation needed.

    yet we’re willing to defame and destroy those women who are successful without us or who dare to disagree with us.

    That has nothing to do with feminism, per se. Tribalism is a widespread human fault, and feminists are no more immune than anyone else.

    5. We have the same interests as men, so when we don’t seem
    interested in typically male pastimes, it’s the men’s fault for being
    such misogynists.

    Citation needed.

    6. We are just as powerful as men, yet we are perpetual victims. If
    a woman is not aware of her perpetual victimhood, we will shame her
    into admitting it, since ours is the only way to think.

    Citation needed.

    7. We decry sexism, but value paternalism.

    Citation needed.

    8. We advocate for equality and social justice, as long as everyone realizes that we are more important than anyone else.

    Citation needed.

    9. We are fully-actualized, independent human beings who do not ever need to take responsibility for our own actions.

    Citation needed.

    10. We are creatures of reason, yet we find disagreement too “triggering” to deal with.

    Citation needed.

    • Vic

      Backpedal harder: A guide to feminist rethorics.

    • bluharmony

      1. http://community.feministing.com/2008/12/09/the_facts_women_as_strong_as_m/

      2 – 10. Google or refer to relevant recent incidents in the atheist/skeptic community. If you really need me to provide a list, I will. But first, see the Atheism Plus forums and note the patriarchal structure of feminism in the atheism movement. Also, read this: http://kazez.blogspot.com/2012/09/solidarity.html.

      • jjramsey

        Re #1: You make a generalization about modern feminists, yet your support it by pointing to a sample that is far from representative: a blog post of an obscure person who — judging from the comments on that post — is espousing a very much disputed position.

        Re #2-10: I’m well aware of those recent incidents. Those incidents have involved people who could easily be described as “modern feminists” by any reasonable standard (i.e. favoring fair treatment of both sexes) being tarred as “misogynist,” etc. See the treatments of Russell Blackford, Sara Mayhew, etc.

        Furthermore, the Kazez piece doesn’t quite go as far as saying “We stand in solidarity with *all* women,” e.g. it would be hard to see her post as supporting, say, women who insist that they should be subordinate to men. It doesn’t even come close to saying that she’s “willing to defame and destroy those women who are successful without us or who dare to disagree with us,” and neither does the rest of her blog, which is pleasantly short on vitriol.

        • bluharmony

          Kazez has two nasty articles about me prior to that, including one calling me a “mad dog” for a video that someone else made and I wasn’t even aware of. I don’t consider her “pleasantly short on vitriol.” Her piece is extremely critical of two women (feminists, even) that I admire — one standing up for the other — while she’s purporting to stand in solidarity with women? Which ones? Hall should be an inspiration to all of us, yet Kazez favors Roth (who makes ceramic neck things and says that anti-harassment policies should provide protection from speech that makes her uncomfortable and from fake jewelry ) over Hall — an MD, a true skeptic, and an Air Force pilot. What kind of solidarity is that? The bottom line is that all of the views I’ve listed above have been expressed by some modern feminists in some way; I’ve merely juxtaposed them for effect. When you put them all together they make no sense, right? Then there’s Jadehawk and Benson, who make fun of all equitable forms of feminism, with Jadehawk, specifically, calling all forms of feminism other than those supported by Benson “clown school.” And personally, I’ve been lied about, defamed and repeatedly called mentally ill (and worse) by male and female “feminists” within our movement for mere disagreement, and I don’t have much tolerance left. If they’ve managed to create a political enemy out of someone like me, who largely supports their entire liberal agenda, can you imagine how much they’re alienating everyone else? This isn’t good for women’s rights, it’s not good for the atheist/skeptic movement, it’s not good for science advocacy, and it isn’t good for men. It’s not good for anyone except those who profit from it, and in the end, that’s what feminism within the movement is all about.

          • jjramsey

            You’ll have to cite the “mad dog” remark, because I can’t find it (and then we can see the context for the remark and judge for ourselves). As for the article where she does criticize you, Guilt by Association, sorry, but that isn’t vitriol; it’s just a rebuttal, and a largely civil one at that.

            The bottom line is that all of the views I’ve listed above have been expressed by some modern feminists in some way …

            … yes, in order to convey the impression that the views are all a part of feminism per se, rather than the opinions of individual feminists who are not necessarily representative of feminism in general (and who may not even agree with each other).

            Then there’s Jadehawk and Benson …

            You want to criticize Jadehawk and Benson, then criticize them — but don’t misportray their positions as somehow representative of alleged excesses of modern feminism.

          • bluharmony

            If they all attack as a group, and shift positions to change their needs, then I can only treat them as a group. All you had to do was Google: http://kazez.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-fun.html.

          • jjramsey

            If they all attack and pile on as a group …

            That’s not what modern feminists in general are doing, though. That’s what a group of atheists who have claimed to be in favor of social justice have been doing.

            All you had to do was Google

            Actually, I searched the blog directly, but using the term “mad dog” and found nothing. The term “mad dogs” did work, though. Anyway, as I expected, the post doesn’t support the claim that the reason she called you a mad dog was “a video that someone else made and I wasn’t even aware of.” Indeed, she made her reasons clear. After making clear in a post on bullying that she did not want specific examples in the comments, you “couldn’t resist bringing up innumerable specific complaints” and
            “continued with [your] litany of complaints.” After a while, Kazez got fed up.

          • bluharmony

            She accuses the “mad dogs” of lying (and the “mad dogs,” she says, is a not intended to insult dogs). “Worse, they’re talking dogs, so they can go away and tell lies about you.” Where is the evidence that anything I said was untrue? This is outright defamation, leading back to my full name.

            You don’t even have support for your goodamn strawmen. I’m fed up with you. You’ve done far worse here than anything I’ve said to Kazez, which was try to explain why the backlash against feminism existed. Because of hypocrisy. Because of attacks. Because of constant Google poisoning and doxxing. Because of mass blockings. So, stop ranting you mad dog and liar! I’m sure whatever it is you do in life, you absolutely suck at it. (Just paraphrasing Kazez, there, but see how “pleasantly without vitriol” that is?)

            I do mean this much, though. You thoughts and arguments are utter nonsense. You can’t even find support for your straw woman. So get lost. Thanks.

    • ManWithPlan

      Given that feminists are notorious for weaving facts and generalizations about the entire world out of thin air, this is rich.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jenny.mach1 Jenny Mach

        Well said, though I think your logic is lost on most people here.

        • bluharmony

          Actually, I think most of us agree with that statement. But then, we’re all different, so what do I know?

    • Clare45

      What is all this “citation needed” stuff? Maria wrote an opinion piece, not a scientific paper requiring chapter and verse references.

      • bluharmony

        It’s the usual indignation for having an opinion that differs from that of the (often male) feminists.

        • ManWithPlan

          You should just stop worrying your little head and let the doubleplusgood feminist hive-mind take care of all your problems.

          LOL

      • http://www.facebook.com/jenny.mach1 Jenny Mach

        Opinions still need evidence to support them. It’s not enough to just say an opinion and not provide evidence to support your conclusion. Actually, I guess you CAN do that, but no one with any brains will take you seriously.

        • Clare45

          If you disagree so much with the opinions stated ,instead of throwing around ad hominems, why don’t you take the onus on yourself to pick just one of Maria’s statements and provide the needed (contrary) evidence yourself and show it to us all -because you are so much smarter than we are.

    • Derpington_The_Third

      Affirmative action is inherently racist and sexist, and the “Ends Justify The Means” Bullshit is duly noted.

      If you want real equality, you don’t use pseudo-equality to get the job done.

    • Astrokid NJ

      4. We stand in solidarity with all women, yet we’re willing to defame and destroy those women who are successful without us or who dare to disagree with us. (In fact, when possible, we prefer getting the feminist men to do it. )

      What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam? Death.
      What is the punishment for popular women just saying that they arent feminists? In recent memory.. Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Carla Bruny, Merissa Mayer (Celebrated Engineer from Google -> Yahoo. How many women really flourish in intellectual fields that are truly the bastion of some males.. not ALL males.. some males.. fields that other males are also envious of)? In any other ideology, religion, political ideology.. it should be just a shrug.. but mainstream feminism has to criticize them.. even tar them.

      What is the punishment for apostasy in feminism? We should ask the independent feminists or libertarian feminists from the early 90s.. Tammy Bruce, Camille Paglia, Hoff Sommers, Cathy Young. Ostracism.

      Nothing new here. What is shameless.. is the “Citation Needed” comment, ignoring all history as well as goings on today.

      • ManWithPlan

        A misogynist is anyone who hates women as much as feminists hate women critical of Feminism.

      • http://twitter.com/iamcuriousblue iamcuriousblue

        Equity feminists have embraced Tammy Bruce now? Bruce is just an old-school radfem who broke with feminism in the 90s after getting peeved that the Third Wave broke with too many of her right-wing sacred cows. Hard Right types like Bruce are the main reason I find “equity feminism” to be problematic on the whole.

        • Astrokid NJ

          I didnt call Tammy Bruce an equity feminist. I think she calls herself an “independent feminist” (as well as an “independent conservative”).

          In fact, I dont even buy into the equity feminist vs gender feminist divide. Those terms are something that Hoff Sommers created, possibly to make herself look good. I think this is a standard human tendency seen in several groups.. a last ditch effort to save the identity of the group..by sectioning into “good ones” vs “bad ones”.
          I just see feminists on a spectrum.. with feminism defined as “the never ending project to improve the condition of women, not giving a damn about the corresponding condition of men, and not caring whether justice is served for both sides”.

          As I have said before here, I am an MRA and am no fan of traditionalism or conservatives. But I got to appreciate Tammy Bruce’s intellectual honesty, passion for liberty and tolerance as evidenced here. The New Thought Police: The Left’s assault on free speech and free minds. From what I can tell, she has no sacred cows.. and is most open to debate and tolerance.. unlike the “Hard Left”.

          • bluharmony

            Independent feminism is often equated with libertarian feminism (which is much like equity feminism). In reality, none of it is mainstream these days. And to be honest, I go much further than that in my beliefs for women’s rights and equality as a whole. Anyway, equity feminism is not what’s taught in Gender Studies, and it’s not what has political clout. Even Sommers admits this much.

          • http://twitter.com/iamcuriousblue iamcuriousblue

            I remember Tammy Bruce as being a major supporter of censoring pornography, and her break with feminism in the 90s was based on it having become too sex-positive for her tastes (and apparently too anti-racist as well). Unless she’s done a complete reversal on the pornography issue, I have to wonder just what kind of “free speech” she’s talking about.

        • bluharmony

          There’s no school of feminist through that I can identify with completely, Which is why I don’t consider myself a feminist.

    • Michael

      Oh please. Go back to freethought blogs where your radfem ideology will never be questioned.

      And it is a blog post not an academic paper.

    • http://twitter.com/StygianRainbow Missy Emm

      Thank you jjramsey … it’s nice when people are able to use logic. You seem to be the only person on this page who has figured out how to do that.

  • namae nanka

    “You see, we were brought up to value equality, and the modern feminist movement sounds nothing like it.”

    ah the mythical ancient feminist who was not a hysterical loon.

    “Further, modern feminism is vastly unfair to men”

    yeah the first wavers were like totally fair:

    http://endofwomen.blogspot.in/2012/10/a-lesson-in-herstory-women-as-property.html

    “the demands I hear modern feminists making are neither reasonable nor rational.”

    if so, then there are high chances that you’d found the 1st wavers neither reasonable nor rational too.
    As many of the women did.

    http://endofwomen.blogspot.in/2012/10/a-lesson-from-herstory-voting.html

    • bluharmony

      Actually, I find first-wave feminists quite rational, and I don’t find blogs that don’t understand law, facts, or history the least bit persuasive.

      • namae nanka

        “I find first-wave feminists quite rational”

        well, they were women raised by men, must have rubbed off a little.

    • MosesZD

      Huh. Got in the wrong reply.

    • Derpington_The_Third

      I like blogs as “professional” citations. Got any more?

      The facts are, although initially noble with wanting to be equal, modern feminism is definitely about getting a step up over men. That’s not equality, and that’s why I don’t support modern feminism.

      Ironically, feminism, in trying to escape gender roles, created their own: Female self-victimization.

      • namae nanka

        “We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men,”

        “although initially noble with wanting to be equal”

        how can you even repeat this baloney when I pointed out how the 1st wavers “equality” was the same as the modern feminists. Equality where they like it, and privileges where they don’t. The difference is merely that it is much more observable now.

        “I like blogs as “professional” citations. Got any more?”

        the links are all in there, what’s the point of repeating them all here?

        Here’s one more citation, change the dates and you’d think it was written this side of the 21st century:

        https://unmaskingfeminism.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/woman-have-quietly-snitched-from-man-his-really-human-qualities/

  • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

    Not in such an obvious way, but yes, that’s what they say and do!

  • Derpington_The_Third

    BRAVO.

    I was told by a radfem once that because I was gay, I was giving into gender roles for liking men, therefore oppressing women because I wasn’t available to them.

    Great laughs were had.

    • SnakeEyez

      Anything that doesn’t pander to their whims is seen as oppression. The fact that they would say that is typical. They will fight for gay, mostly lesbian rights yet will use homosexual slurs in arguments against men.

      • Derpington_The_Third

        The funny thing is that feminism doesn’t even cover GLBT rights at all, and I know a bunch of feminists that are transphobic.

        Sad, originally a good movement, now it’s been poisoned.

        • SnakeEyez

          Makes sense with how loose their are with their usage of homosexual slurs.

        • http://twitter.com/Eshto Ryan Grant Long

          They pay lip service to it but are antagonistic toward gay culture in plenty of ways. The simplistic man vs. women gender war they envision society to be is utterly heterosexist. I’ve also met transphobic ones, or at least ones who are completely ignorant about transgender issues. On a purely cultural note, all these PC obsessed goofballs who cry about words like “bitch” wouldn’t last five seconds in a gay bar, since vulgar, not-PC humor is very common, especially when you’ve got a drag queen or two hanging out with you.

      • ManWithPlan

        I’ve been virgin-shamed dozens of times by feminists (virgin-shaming = “I disagree with your opinions so you must be a loser who can’t get laid.”) Interesting. So we’re not supposed to objectify women for their bodies, but their bodies are what validate us as men? GOOOO TEAM FEMINISM!!!!

        • SnakeEyez

          To them shaming is only ok when they do it. That is all they really do anymore. The same ones who said that line tired old line to you are the the ones who would jump on you if you called a woman a slut. Equal when convenient is their game.

        • IndigoLamprey

          Oh, the hypocrisy. I’ve seen it too, but don’t you DARE slut-shame!

    • http://twitter.com/Eshto Ryan Grant Long

      HAHAHA wut. How does this even make sense.

      In college a crazy postmodern feminist said that transgender men are just women who are trying to access “male privilege” and that taking testosterone doesn’t actually change anything. It’s all in their minds.

  • SnakeEyez

    “1. We are just as strong as men, yet we need men to escort us or avoid us when we’re alone because all men are potential rapists.”

    So they want knights when its convenient and will trash them when they are through with them.

    “2. We are just as smart as men, yet we need affirmative action programs in order to show it.”

    Then they brag about outnumbering men in college. What a joke.

    “3. We are just as capable as men, yet we need feminist men to defend us and speak on our behalves.”

    What they don’t realize is when they do that, they are basically saying that they back all the sexist trash modern feminism pushes out. Then they get upset over the fact that its practically a man repellent.

    “4. We stand in solidarity with all women, yet we’re willing to defame and destroy those women who are successful without us or who dare to disagree with us. (In fact, when possible, we prefer getting the feminist men to do it.”

    My thoughts exactly when Palin was running with Mccain. Don’t get me wrong, I really can’t stand either side but the way the femmes trashed Palin pretty much ruined their “eeekwaalitee fer awl!” mantra.

    “5. We have the same interests as men, so when we don’t seem interested in typically male pastimes, it’s the men’s fault for being such misogynists.”
    Just another “WAHH PATRIARCHY” line.

    “6. We are just as powerful as men, yet we are perpetual victims. If a woman is not aware of her perpetual victimhood, we will shame her into admitting it, since ours is the only way to think.”

    The borg mentality right there. The modern feminist sees herself as the eternal victim.

    “7. We decry sexism, but value paternalism.”

    That is why they run to the U.S govt to put the MRA and MGTOW on their hate group watchlist. It will be their undoing since they are practically aiding the US govt to turning the US into a police state.

    “8. We advocate for equality and social justice, as long as everyone realizes that we are more important than anyone else.

    Exactly what we are seeing with this VAWA fiasco. VAWA means more funding for them and it is also a nuke to men’s due process when accused of violence against a woman be it rape or DV. We saw that with the Duke incident. They are pissed that they lost it.

    “9. We are fully-actualized, independent human beings who do not ever need to take responsibility for our own actions.”

    We saw that with Debra LaFave, Andrea Yates, and Casey Anthony.

    “10. We are creatures of reason, yet we find disagreement too “triggering” to deal with.”

    As I wrote above, that is why they run to the govt to put men’s groups on hate group watchlists. They also use shaming tactics in debates when they have nothing to back up their outlandish claims.

    Modern feminism has the west by the balls and more so in certain countries. With the record low birthrates and destroyed family foundation it will only be a matter of time before the unfriendly nations with their booming birth rates will take over.

  • Bert Russell

    Ya know, I have been known to disagree with feminists here and there, but this list is nothing but straw-men. It’s really quite sad.

    • bluharmony

      Believe me, it feels nothing like straw when you’re on the receiving end.

      • Derpington_The_Third

        Author should this more appropriately be about pseudo-feminists? If we believe that feminism, by definition, along with MRA and Egalitarianism support gender equality, then would be it be more accurate to label people who fall off that as pseudo-feminists?

        • bluharmony

          That’s an interesting question. At least as encountered in atheist circles, I’m not sure what label to give them. Some of them have refused to admit that there are other types of feminism (e.g., when I said that I suppoted equity and liberal/libertarian feminism, I was told that I supported the “clown school of feminism”). At times they’ve argued that equity feminism is anti-feminism. They don’t like the terms radical feminism or gender feminism, yet they subscribe to radical feminist theory, except when inconvenient. They claim to represent all feminists, but when convenient, some also say that feminism has many schools of thought (which is true). They say they’re sex positive, then adopt sex negative positions. There are simply too many contradictions for me to keep up with.

          • ManWithPlan

            Feminism is an amorphous emotional shapeshifter that can alter form at the whim of whatever is convenient at the time. I have seriously had more than one conversation where it is claimed that “Gloria Steinem isn’t a REAL feminist” and “the NOW doesn’t represent Feminism.”

          • bluharmony

            I couldn’t agree more.

          • http://dpreviewsucks.blogspot.com/ The whole truth

            “Feminism is an amorphous emotional shapeshifter that can alter form at the whim of whatever is convenient at the time.”

            So, feminism is like religious beliefs.

            Think about it.

          • ManWithPlan

            There’s a reason why some of us call it femitheism

          • bluharmony

            Right, which is why it was so bizarre to find it in the atheist movement. I’ve never been religious and I hope I’ve never been dogmatic. In any case, I’m not going to start now.

          • MosesZD

            So, feminism is like religious beliefs.
            Sadly, parts of the movement are more like a religious cult than one would like. And that aspect of the movement is dysfunctional (like any cult) if your goal is to address the actual problems of society and propose and implement actual solutions to those actual problems.
            Now, the behaviors make sense if you’re concerned about political power and doing whatever is necessary to perpetuate it. But that’s not really what this blog is for.
            What I, and many others, find frightful is that particular cult has infiltrated the skeptic movement on the backs of some of the feminist/skeptic grifters like the Skepchick women. So, just like the right-wing hijacked the Tea Party (which was much different when it started), we have these clowns hijacking the skeptic movement.

          • Karmakin

            I’m starting to refer to that ideology as “Neofeminism” to distinguish it from more widely supported, I think, Equity Feminism. Hopefully that’s something that will catch on.

            Of course, it’s just a coincidence that it joins some other relatively unpopular Neos like Neoconservatism and Neoliberalism.

            Strangely enough, I’m OK with Keanu Reeves.

  • Mel

    “10. We are creatures of reason, yet we find disagreement too “triggering” to deal with.”

    Gawd, that one pisses me off no end. Feminism has gone from “I am Woman, Hear me Roar” to “I am Woman, Respect Mah Fragiliteeeee.” Oh, you aren’t fragile? Get outa here, misogynist gender traitor!

    • bluharmony

      What’s worse, is they flip from one to the other, as convenient.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Oliver-Crangle/100003079637271 Oliver Crangle

    As a man that once identified as a feminist, I might add

    as a notable case of 8. We advocate for equality and social justice, including for and especially for men, but we know the best way to advocate for men’s civil rights is through feminist leaders and feminist theories, not through men’s groups.

    And all of the rubicons of contemporary feminism seem contradictory. Republican? Not a feminist. Guns? Probably not a feminist. Pro-life? Definitely not a feminist. Feminism is filled with diverse women of many rich diverse backgrounds, and we all must favor specific Democratic policies of relevance in 2013 or risk being tossed out.

    I actually think Feminism would progress faster, and politics in the US would work better, if Feminism had a nice divorce from Democrats and would release its stranglehold.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jenny.mach1 Jenny Mach

    Dear Maria,

    Let me first start off by saying that I do not identify as a feminist. It’s not that I don’t agree with feminism, rather it’s that I haven’t done enough homework to really understand it. What is feminism, really? It’s hard to know, especially when “feminists” guilty of the items you mentioned above cloud the real essence of it.

    That said, it is clear that you also did no research to support your long list of feminist accusations. You provide very little evidence to support your statements, and those tidbits you do supply are questionable. I wish you had done a little more homework. Then, we all might have learned something. We could even have had a decent, thought-provoking conversation instead of the back and forth adolescent bickering I see in the comments below.

    As I said, I don’t pretend to know enough about feminist history or ideology to support or approve it. But I do know NOT to make a long list of accusations without being an expert on the subject.

    If you ever care to fill in your list with some hard examples, then I’d be very interested in reading it.

    Jenny

  • KW

    As a modern feminist, my response is no, and I am sorry that you see feminists in this way. I once felt similarly. I believed in equality, but claimed I was not a feminist. I have since realized that belief in gender equality is feminism and also that the feminism we come in contact with in daily media and in prominent public discourse is not necessarily representative of modern feminist movements.

    Though I understand your point of view, I have several disagreements with your argument. 1st it applies almost exclusively to Western feminist movements whereas feminism is a global phenomenon and a means of addressing an international power structure which has created and enforced a very deep economic and social divide between genders. It is not confined to sexual and economic equality in a single society. Relatedly, there are countless forms of feminism, many in direct and heated opposition with each other (see Western feminists v. Veiled Muslim feminists), so to generalize about all feminists is highly inaccurate. Last, many of these points are simply not in opposition with each other. For example, women’s strength is not what is in question when feminists address rape, it is the cultural and political factors which encourages and allows the rape of women to continue to be so prominent. And there is mass disagreement among feminists on what these factors are and how to address and remedy them.

    My real point is that feminism in its purest form is belief in justice for women. Beyond that single connecting thread, it is not a specific set of beliefs and feminists are not a specific set of people advocating for a singular set of solutions. Equally importantly, feminism is not misandry. I know misandrists who identify as feminists but they are definitely a minority (and in my opinion, are NOT feminists), even if they are popularly portrayed as the true feminists. If you believe in women’s rights and in equality, you are by definition a feminist, and distancing oneself from the word only makes it seem dirtier to society at large and discredits the deeply meaningful and necessary literature, research, and activism taking place all around the world under the name of feminism in its many many forms.

    Here is a video that I really dig. It helped me understand why I felt so negative towards feminism. You should watch it if you are interested. If you don’t trust the link, it’s called Straw Feminist and it’s on the feministfrequency youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watchv=tnJxqRLg9x0

    Best of luck! Continue to be skeptical. And if you once more decide to identify as feminist, don’t be afraid to stick up for the fringe points of view. You will not find yourself alone.

    Lots of love,

    KW

    • bluharmony

      Thank you for your wonderful comment. Whether I choose to identify as a feminist or not, please know that I am in agreement on the most of core issues involved and that by no means do I see all feminists as being the same. I just don’t like the “extremism” that the term has become associated with. I fundamentally support equality and equalizing measures when necessary — legally, culturally, and financially. By dictionary definition I am a feminist, but if feminists choose to reject me as such (and they have), I see no benefit in pressing the issue.

  • Maddie Hopfield

    absolutely deplorable. I recommend you do some research on what feminism really means instead of just believing that modern feminism is your (apparently) phony and misinformed definition juxtaposed with anecdotal evidence.

    • http://www.facebook.com/bluharmony Maria Maltseva

      Actually, I just finished giving a presentation on feminism — not the Blog 101 stuff, but the different waves, the various schools of thought, feminist theory, and its relationship to skepticism.