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Posted by on Dec 31, 2012 in Scepticism | 22 comments

NLP & The Trouble with Derren Brown

 

Derren Brown is a skeptic; a friend of science and reason. As well as being a wonderful showman with a unique style, he is yet another magician to debunk the practices of psychics, such as ‘speaking to the dead’ using techniques like cold reading. However, I have a problem with one aspect of his performances, and that’s his apparent connection to the pseudo-scientific practice of neuro-linguistic programming, or NLP.

First, a bit about my own experience with NLP.

 

NLP and Sales Techniques

While I was a student in London I worked part-time for a major UK mobile phone network, selling mobile phone contracts in a shop. The job was quite fun at first, and the commission meant that I did pretty well financially (for a student at least). However, new bosses came in, bringing with them great ideas for how to move forward. The idea deemed most crucial to the corporation’s progression was taught to us on a special training week. Rather than learning about the products we sold, we were taught the art of selling in general. One such way is to insert words like “by now…” to make them want to ‘buy now’. Another is to get them in ‘yes mode’ by asking them questions they are likely to say “yes” to. You can find out what sort of person they are. Are they a ‘left brain’ person (meaning they value logic and reason over emotion) or are they ‘right brained’ (more feeling, emotional). If they look in a certain direction when they’re thinking, that can tell you that they’re ‘visual’, or ‘kinaesthetic’ and so on. Make sure you let kinaesthetic people touch the phone you’re trying to sell them!

Ok, it’s complete bollocks, and being the argumentative type (left brained, of course!) I tried to dispute what they were preaching to us. I was on my own – everyone else seemed to buy it (probably because they inserted “by now”…) They weren’t having any of it, and when I got back to work we were told that if we didn’t integrate NLP into our sales procedures, we’d get into trouble and they’d dock our commission (they tested us with ‘mystery shopping’).

Why this biographical stuff important? Well, at a conference where they were celebrating the ‘success’ of the new NLP-inspired techniques (they also lowered the prices considerably, which I feel might have had an effect), they played us a video:

[Alternative for readers in the UK]

Just look at the power of NLP, we were told! You can get someone to want something they don’t really want, simply by using certain words and phrases.

Skip forward a few years and I’m in York, still studying, and still working in a shop; only this time I’m working in a major UK camera retailer. New bosses have just come in, and we’re sent to train our sales techniques (this is sounding rather familiar). We are played the very same video – Derren Brown ‘causing’ Simon Pegg to want a red BMX. This makes me wonder how many other companies are training their sales staff to use NLP on customers, and using this video as evidence to support their claims. Surely I can’t have coincidentally chosen to work for the only two that did.

 

emBedded coMmands? not eXactly

If you haven’t watched the video, then let me briefly sum it up. Pegg has a written note in his pocket describing a present he really wants. Brown then grabs his arm and starts speaking to him, inserting words like “car like a BM or an X-box” and “…to handle bar none…”. Wheel/bike-shaped objects are around the room and on the wall. Pegg is then asked what present he wants, to which he answers “a red BMX”. To his surprise, Brown produces one, but in a final twist, reveals that Pegg’s written note says (in Pegg’s handwriting) ‘leather jacket’. Brown then apparently reveals how the trick was done – the spiel near the start caused Pegg to forget about the jacket and desire the red BMX in its place.

I don’t believe that explanation. I think it’s as weak as the explanation he gave for his lottery prediction trick. Perhaps you think I’m stating the obvious, but I find that most people I talk to about it believe Brown’s explanation, including skeptics and scientists. “It’s just suggestion!” they tell me, as if I’m stupidly just not ‘getting it’. So I’m going to try to debunk the trick, and while I can’t offer the correct solution, I can hopefully convince people that Brown didn’t do it the way he said he did.

So what do I believe happened? I think that Pegg wanted the red BMX all along, and Brown somehow obtained this information well before the show – enough time to get a red BMX ready to reveal during the trick. The NLP-spiel is just an extravagant misdirection. The real trick was getting Pegg to find a note in his own handwriting with ‘leather jacket’ written on. Here are my reasons for thinking this:

1) Pegg seems to have no recollection of ever wanting a leather jacket. Not only does he now want a red BMX, Brown’s NLP has deleted both Pegg’s desire for a leather jacket and his memory of such a desire. But Brown’s influence was apparently only supposed to make Pegg desire a bike, not to stop him desiring a jacket and forget that he ever wanted one! In fact, Pegg can’t think of any reason why he might want a leather jacket. That’s a little strange, if he really did want one before. What I’d expect, if Brown really did implant the desire for a BMX in his mind, is that Pegg would respond with something like “Oh! Yes! A leather jacket is what I want. What did I say? Red BMX? Not sure why I’d think that…”

2) Leather jackets are a rather boring gift for a fun fellow like Simon Pegg to ask for on a TV show. A red BMX is exactly the sort of thing he’d want – something he probably wouldn’t buy himself (in contrast to the jacket) but the sort of present perfect to ask for on TV, especially if it satisfies a ‘childhood dream’ of his.

3) Even if we grant that NLP works (which I’m not willing to do), surely it doesn’t work that well. It might suggest the idea of a BMX to Pegg, but surely not make him want one. Why is it that only Brown and other ‘mentalist’ magicians can do this kind of thing? Where are the ‘serious’ (i.e. non-performing) NLP experts, demonstrating that NLP is capable of this sort of psychological alteration?

4) If that’s how he did it, then Brown revealed how the trick was done. I’m not a magician, but I’m pretty sure that’s a bit of a no-no – and Brown is a trained magician. Why would he do that, rather than leave us guessing? It seems much more plausible to me that Brown was sticking to the ‘code’, and merely pretending to reveal how he did the trick, as a form of misdirection. Brown has a history of telling us falsehoods about how the tricks are done (see the lottery ‘prediction’, above). Why should this one be different?

5) Getting Pegg to pull out a note with ‘leather jacket’ in his own handwriting when he in fact wrote something completely different is hardly the most ground-breaking feat in the history of magic. I can’t tell you how Brown and his team might have pulled it off, since the best magic trick I can do involves putting a card back in the pack the wrong way up. Nevertheless, I doubt we’d postulate ‘real magic’ to explain something like that performed by another magician, so why are we more credulous when it comes to Brown?

So those are my reasons. I’ll update the post with more if I think of any, but please let me know if you disagree or have anything else to add. I could be wrong, but the possible world in which I’m wrong includes humans with the ability to say a few ‘magic’ words and make someone both forget what they want, and want something completely different. That”s implausible, at least to me.

 

Another Uri?

I feel a bit bad asking this, since I like Derren Brown. But is there a touch of the ‘Uri Geller’ about him? One difference is obvious; Brown is an outspoken skeptic, and doesn’t really push the idea that he’s using NLP, except as part of the performance. Geller is adamant that he bends spoons solely with the power his mind. Still, it strikes me that since people genuinely are misled, then Brown has been rather careless, and is inadvertently lending support to pseudo-science. I don’t recall seeing Brown explicitly say that his apparent use of NLP is a ruse.

Having said that, I do see the other side. Brown’s performance is an ingenious piece of misdirection. While everyone is concentrating on his hypnotic techniques, the trick is already done, via some very simple and traditional method. To people who don’t buy his NLP stuff, the trick breathes new life into the ordinary magic show. However to people who do think he’s an NLP master, they end up believing weird things; if only they were as good at NLP as Brown, then they could heavily influence the minds of others.

It seems to me then that there’s a middle ground, but it’s difficult to know where to draw the line. If Brown says ‘by the way, I didn’t really use NLP’ then that will help stop those who’d use his performances as evidence that NLP is really powerful, but ruin the techniques of misdirection in his shows. However, if he carries on, his shows have the same force, but people like my retail bosses will keep using Brown as proof that their training methods are on the right track.

So I propose this: Brown carries on doing his shows in the way he does them already. They’re good shows. However, to counter the misguided notion that he’s demonstrating the power of NLP, he explicitly states somewhere that all of the NLP in his shows is misdirection, so that skeptical people can dig it out whenever we encounter someone who wants to use Derren Brown as proof that NLP is magic.

 

Update:

Someone helpfully pointed out this post by Brown:

3. I have never claimed to use NLP to achieve my ‘tricks’. On the contrary, I have written very critically about it in Tricks of the Mind. I reserve the same scepticism for subliminal messaging, as well as a lot of body-language reading and the like.

This is good to see, but has two problems. Firstly, I think it’s not entirely true. In the BMX trick he strongly suggests that NLP is how he did the trick. Perhaps he doesn’t explicitly claim that, in the way that Geller claims to bend spoons with his mind. Nevertheless, that’s what almost everybody will take away from that performance, and I think Brown’s responsible for that. Secondly, he isn’t saying here that he’s not using NLP. So the NLPer won’t see this (if they see it at all) as an obstacle to using Brown as evidence of NLP’s efficacy.

People do still believe it. Right now, the two top comments on the YouTube video of the BMX trick are claiming that Brown is using NLP. So there’s still a problem.

I stress again – Brown is a friend of skepticism, and I’m a fan of his. I just think that there’s a niggling problem with some of his methods.

  • http://www.synapses.co.za/ Jacques Rousseau

    Here’s a discussion thread with some interesting points on this trick. Quite a few people make the point – as you do – that the NLP stuff isn’t in any way related to how the trick, but is simply another aspect of the show. Dressing sleight-of-hand up as mind control, as it were. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=501118

  • http://twitter.com/starblast captain kingsway

    HI guys, I had alook at the video; big business use this con in various forms to buy stuff, the sad thing is that this action inserts a variable amount of PTSD into the thought time line of the victim, whose brain has to carry this rubbish as PTSD and cant understand it and is conditioned for the next sale or whatever con act is being used.

  • Devilindisguise

    Derren Brown is worse then all the psychics in the world: He for 1 uses-actors in ALL-HIS- TV-Shows, 2 He uses Covert-Hypnosis & NLP to influence people uncocniously (which is actually TRULY a Horrible thing to do & he just denies this firmly, sure why not?); 3 He is a big fat liar and has His-Team (Marketing-Adults, using False accounts on Twitter) send out to reel-in-Teenagers (as young as 15 years! so these kids activate their friends and their friends) over Twitter with massive-sexual-innuendo and more— NLP-to-the-MAX (disgusting!, I mean, what kids feels naturally atracted to a bald 42 year old??? watch out parents if your teenage kid becomes overly derren-addict just watch who they´re talking to online and don´t doubt your gut feelings about this). Horrendous Marketing Abusing Bunch!

  • An Ardent Skeptic

    Thanks for this post, Notung!

    Thanks, too, to Jacques for the additional link. “Ianzin”‘s response to the original post by “Dex sinister” is excellent.

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    Thanks for that. Also, there’s a JREF thread: http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-37851.html

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    Thanks for this. Also, there’s a JREF thread about it: http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-37851.html

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    How do we know he uses stooges? I admit that I can’t see how some of the tricks could be done without stooges, but there could be a way. Magicians are clever people! I actually don’t mind him ‘lying’. That’s sort of what magicians do anyway. I just worry that it could be presented in such a way as to actually make people think he’s doing what he’s saying he’s doing. You don’t get that with Paul Daniels or David Copperfield, etc.

    I don’t see that the teenager thing is called for, either. Are you suggesting he’s a paedophile?!

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    I’m not sure what you mean, but I think I disagree. I don’t see this as psychological – just a regular magic trick with ‘pseudo-psychological gloss’.

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    Yep – well worth a look!

  • rg57

    It would be interesting if Brown would perform one of his NLP acts for Penn and Teller, and see what they say. As to hypnosis, I believe their position is that it’s bulls–t.

  • Devilindisguise

    Very regrettable ex-marketing Team-Member who carefully got chucked out because didn´t agree at all with dreadful tactics being used- Inside info!

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    Yes – in fact Penn and Teller did a show called ‘Fool Us’ in the UK. They had a guy doing basically the same trick as Brown, using ‘NLP’. P&T called BS right away, and the performer nodded. I bring that up whenever I’m arguing with someone about Derren Brown!

  • Obie

    Technically, this kind of “sales NLP” is nothing more than a watered-down collection of psycholingustic principles and imagination manipulation techniques applied in such a way to create an “emotional hijacking” of the subjects (read: victims) mental state, thus making the individual who’s being NLPeed do whatever is being suggested by the operator…

    There’s absolutely no way that Derren Brown is doing this in that video, and I seriously doubt that the sales world has the collective intelligence to perform this feat consistantly.

    Now, if Mr. Brown hypnotised the poor buggers off camera (easy feat with a highly suggestible actor) and implanted a post-hypnotic suggestion to make him want that BMX on cue… different story, and much more likely given his “hypnotherapy” background.

    [note: hypnosis is actually a real neurological phenomena, in a manner of speaking... Tom Silver's "Scientific Hypnosis" material is the best overview I've seen; but most, and by that I mean almost all "hypnosis/hypnotherapy" loose in the world is complete magical thinking nonsense!]

  • JG29A

    Brown’s performance is an ingenious piece of misdirection. While everyone is concentrating on his hypnotic techniques, the trick is already done, via some very simple and traditional method.

    This doesn’t strike me as “ingenious”, but rather one of the two most important principles in designing a good magic trick, which all magicians nearly always use: make the audience search for trickery in places where there’s nothing to be found. (The other principle is to make the mechanism of the trick so ugly that even if anyone came up with the solution, there would be no “aha” reaction and thus no spreading of the solution meme.)

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    I say ‘ingenious’ because all magic tricks are ingenious to me!

  • http://www.skepticink.com/notung Notung

    But isn’t it much easier to switch the note and pretend to hypnotise him? JG29A’s comment on this post is helpful here:

    The other principle is to make the mechanism of the trick so ugly that even if anyone came up with the solution, there would be no “aha” reaction and thus no spreading of the solution meme.

    So the switching of the note is so mundane that nobody would suspect it, and Brown can pretend that he’s playing with Pegg’s mind.

  • Pingback: Derren Brown is a genius - Page 3 - Parapsychology and alternative medicine forums of mind-energy.net

  • Kortechs

    This is a spot on analysis imo. I’ve been taking the “traditional magician guised as hypnotist/NLPer” approach to Mr. Brown’s work since I started watching his programs with a more critical eye. One thing I am quite sure of is that he lies. A lot. Which is nothing new, and nothing that I consider wrong in this context. He’s in the business of lying, in order to entertain. A magician who tells the truth wouldn’t be much of a magician. But, whereas most magicians lie by misdirecting or omitting truths, he really takes a direct approach.

    The real “brilliance” (and i do think its quite clever, despite my use of airquotes) of Deren Brown’s methodology lies in his approach to misdirection; instead of the traditional “pay attention to my hands”, he is using the “pay attention to my linguistics and “hypnosis”. Since this is something that magicians have rarely done before, the public is easily fooled. To compound the effect, he likes to do this thing where he kind of lets the viewer in on some of his methods. The viewer feels special, feels smart, and doesn’t think for a second that this moment of sharing is the biggest lie of all.

    This of course does not explain away all of his tricks (and i believe that they are all in fact “merely” tricks), but certainly in the case of the BMX I think its quite clear that your analysis is correct. A simple replacement trick guised as NLP/hypnosis/whatever.

    I’m also quite convinced that he does in fact use a multitude of “stooges”. Tbh I think most if not all of the people in his “Seance” program were actors. When they’re first introduced, you see them all standing around in small groups, conversing with each other. It didn’t ring true. A group of strangers gathered together rarely look so socially well-adjusted. There’s always a couple loners standing uncomfortably to the side, not interacting, for instance.
    But when the group is introduced in the program, they are all quite engaged with one another, and I am reminded of actors in the background crowd of a theatre performance, all mouthing nonsense words to create the illusion of a social unit. There are plenty of other examples of the individuals not “ringing true” as well throughout the program, as well as in other programs.

    this still doesn’t explain why I wrote “Lisbon” during the tv audience portion of the show, when Brown had the viewers write down the name of a city. I was originally going to write “Pittsburgh” just to be a dick, but at the last second I sort of emptied my mind, and wrote “Lisbon”, a city that I haven’t seen mentioned or thought of in years. The girl in the show wrote “London”. Its quite close to Lisbon. Ive seen forum posters say that they wrote everything from London to Leicester to Lisbon. To me, it felt like more than a coincidence. Subliminal messages? I can’t think of another explanation.

    The bottom line though, is that Brown has gained notoriety chiefly for TELEVISION performances. This means that there is a host of behind the scenes manipulating that can easily go on, and makes it almost impossible to deduce what the precise nature of this manipulation is.

    sorry for the wall of text.
    tl:dr, I agree with the article.

  • Hogehoed

    Dear Notung,

    I think your explanation of the BMX-trick is basically right. Today I watched it for the so many’th time, and finally I noticed something that gave it away: Simon initially says, “that isn’t my handwriting as well.” Indeed, the real trick here is letting Simon believe, for a brief moment, that he really wrote ‘leather jacket’.

    Pegg is probably chosen because Derren already knew him and knew that (i) he is quite susceptible to Derren suggesting that he did not wrote Red BMX (which he of course did write down) and (ii) when Pegg later realized, as he no doubt did, how the trick worked, he would not run to the media with it. I guess that Derren, being a friend of Simon, had a chance to study Simon’s handwriting and mimic it, so that he could convince Simon, in the time between the presentation of the gift and the ‘after-interview’, that it was ‘definitely his writing’ (“look at the ‘J’! It’s surely yours!”)

    I think Derren had more than “enough time to get a red BMX ready to reveal during the trick” because I think the whole studio and Derren’s monologue are specifically tailored with Simon’s request in mind. The trick is (i) obtaining this information and designing the whole studio timely, and (ii) switching the envelop (which is of course not very revolutionary).

    However, the brilliance of this whole scheme lies in the NLP-smoke and mirrors.

  • http://skepticink.com/notung Notung

    Doesn’t he say “that’s my handwriting as well”? It’s hard to tell, but it sounds like it, and the subsequent conversation suggests that’s what he said.

  • Mike Kaye

    I saw the red BMX thing on Hulu. I then decided to watch no more Darren Brown.

  • temp

    He says all the time he uses lies tricks and deception to create an illusion. He is a fantastically gifted magician. He rely got me to want to learn how he does these tricks. I can workout most magic tricks, but his are hard. the BMX trick jsut involved a bit of information and switching the card in Simon Peggs pocket.
    The irony is that people take his show so literally, TO MAKE MONEY FROM IT. In bogus training scams.
    As
    for NLP I really want to know so much more about it. some people do
    random stuff and use the name NLP, but NLP as Ritchard Bandlar created
    it… I still haven’t seen enough evedence for or against it. I have
    seen evidence that puts a good argument for it, but I don’t want to
    influence anyone.
    One thing though, I went to an Amway meeting and I
    still am amazed at how people went craz about their hugely overpriced
    products. That to me was evidence to support a hypothesis in favor of
    brainwashing. there is some psychology to be studded there.
    Reading
    Bandlers first book “the structure of magic” was a life changer for me, I
    think it was probably the placebo effect. I could use the ideas to give
    me hope. like people use religion.
    I have had pushy sales people try
    to use NLP and push me into signing. I never but from a pushy sales
    person!!! sometimes the pressure and the excitement convince you to sign.
    But is people use Daren Brown ans an example to sell training courses. That is just Bullshit

  • http://twitter.com/AnonWhiteHat Anon Whitehat

    Brown is a showman using what he thinks is science. Cold reading and psychics? lol Cold reading was known of and explained far better than he has done 150 years ago. He’s just rehashing it for the young.