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Posted by on Jan 27, 2014 in Atheism, featured, homeopothy, important, Skepticism | 736 comments

The Bible Cured Cancer!

healing_code_bookWhat happens when you mix the wackiness of homeopathy with the ridiculousness of religion? You get the Matthew 4 Protocol. I don’t know if you heard, but cancer has completely vanished from the face of the Earth. No, I haven’t noticed that either. But this morning I got an e-mail from The Washington Times telling me that the Bible has cured cancer.

The e-mail begins by stating that atheists are speechless and can’t explain this. There is a healing message hidden in the Bible on page 856 of the King James Bible. This of course was an advertisement for a “groundbreaking” book. The e-mail directed me to a website which auto-plays a video explaining how on page 856 of the Bible there is a magical cure for cancer. The video goes on for a while, but never does give you the cure. For that, you have to sign up for the book.

How cruel is this guy? He claims to be able to cure cancer with a simple secret found on a single page of a book almost everyone has or has access too, but he’ll only give it to you if you sign up to his mailing list. In the meantime, you have to suffer and maybe even die. If this miracle cure is so simple that it can be found on one page of the Bible, then you should just come out and say what it is.

Well, I looked up Matthew 4, which is where the cure is said to be located and it talks about fasting for 40 days and 40 nights. So there it is. That must be the magical cure for cancer.

How can I explain away this magical cure? 1. I doesn’t work and 2. People wrote the King James Bible, not God. Even if you are a fundamentalist religious person who believes that God wrote (or divinely inspired) the Bible, human beings translated and published it in the form of the King James Bible.

Oh shit, an atheist just explained it! This “miracle code” is a fraud and it preys on people when they are sick, dying, and desperate. I know that The Washington Times are hard up for advertisers, but bounds of reason here.

The website promotes Dr. Mark Stengler. He is a homeopathic doctor and author of almost a dozen books on homeopathic “medicine.” It seems that all one really has to do to get any attention is to invoke the Bible and then it is no longer a scam, it’s religion!

That is the real Bible Code and that is what Brian Chambers figured out with his book, “The Bible’s Healing Code Revealed.”  Well, I have a Bible Code too. Just go to any page of the Bible and it will prove that the Bible is completely fiction! I’ll call it “The Atheist Bible Code Revealed!” ;-)

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  • Anomynous

    thanks for your post, being an agnostic myself, I agree with most of what you said, but I just wanted to pinpoint some flaws to improve your argument:
    - I’m a little uncomfortable with your stipulated claims about the Universe. Just like we don’t have sufficient scientific evidence to prove theories the early earth, we don’t have evidence to necessarily prove the big bang theory, only evidence that we take in support of it, and it does seem to be the best theory we have so far of the Universe’s early beginnings.
    - When the bible was written, while many peoples at that time certainly engaged in barbaric practices, this shouldn’t necessarily reflect on the writer of the bible himself. And keep in mind that he is only the messenger, too. Given that God exists, humans are responsible for their own actions, God isn’t responsible despite being all-powerful. We each are capable of doing “bad” things, and God allows us to God gave us free will. So theory that God is all that is Good still survives the problem that evil can exist in the world. Also, since a human was responsible for interpreting God’s word and translating it to the Bible, what the Bible claims can only be attributed to the writer(s).
    - also, if we do not feel after death, like you said, then it’s not necessarily inspiring for us. we could also take an apathetic attitude towards life, since we wouldn’t care about anything after death.
    - also, I think the logic behind “this is moral because God told us it is” actually goes a step further to “God is all that is Good and so that whatever he tells us must be moral”. If you follow this logic, then you’d see that God wouldn’t actually ever say rape is moral, so no problem there and you should exclude that from your criticism.

    Anyway, all problems you could possibly raise as an atheist can be logically addressed actually. So if theist wanted to, he/she could logically stand by the core ideas that embody the idea of God without any contradictions, etc. In other words, it’s not necessarily illogical to be theist. The only requirement is that you must accept on faith that God exists, since you can’t logically prove God’s existence.

    That goes the other way, too, for Atheists. Since you can’t logically disprove God’s existence, you must accept on faith that God does not exist. Remember that lack of evidence does not mean something does not exist. Before we had microscopes powerful enough to see atoms does not mean atoms did not exist until we had evidence of them.

    Of course, I’m claiming that one cannot prove or disprove the existence of god because very smart people have been trying to do so for thousands of years without success.

    Cheers!
    A.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Wow, you have put a lot on the table and there are problems with just about everything you said. First, I’m an agnostic too. I am also an atheist. You seem to be confused about what those terms actually mean. Not to worry thought, I wrote a handy dandy explanation: http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/religion-101-what-is-the-difference-between-atheism-and-agnosticism

      As for the Big Bang, I didn’t say this was proven with 100% certainty, I said (and I quote), “The evidence for this is almost as big as the universe itself.” The Big Bang theory is a pretty solid theory in cosmology. Sure new evidence can come along t disprove it, but that is the case with all scientific theories. It is however a pretty solid model with a great deal of strong supportive evidence.

      First, we know that there were multiple writers of the Bible. You won’t even find a Christian to dispute this as it is part of their narrative. Historians agree, except not necessarily on who the writers are, just that there were multiple writers. Also, The Bible is alleged to be divinely inspired by God. This means that if God wanted to convey a message, it would have been perfectly conveyed. So that barbarism preached in the Bible speaks to this point. Further, I didn’t even address the Problem of Evil here, but I did write about it in the Atheism 101 section on the tab at the top of the page.

      In relation to death, I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I wasn’t saying that after death we would care about our family and friends, I was saying that before death we care about our family, friends, and future generations. It is because we care about these people NOW while we are alive that we want to make the world a better place for them knowing that they will live on when we are dead.

      As for morality, I think you grasped what I said accurately, but the problem if something is good then God must approve doesn’t seem to fit with what the Bible claims is good. Basically what you are saying is God is on your side no matter what side you are on. This means that morality is completely relative and that whatever you believe to be good you can correctly justify by claiming that God also claims it to be the case. There is no way to verify what is actually good. It just becomes a matter of opinion. You can claim that god wouldn’t support rape, but the Bible stands against you on that and so does the rapist who believes that God agrees with him that rape is a moral duty. How can you prove him wrong? Do you God’s person contact information so that we can ask him directly if rape is moral or immoral? No, rape is immoral because it is an attack on another person, it causes harm both mental and physical, and it is not conducive to a productive society. I don’t care what some deity tells me.

      Finally, I have proven that God by definition cannot exist. See my post called, “The Ontological Argument Against God” or something like that. But I need not have to prove with 100% certainly that God doesn’t exist. I just have to show that it is not reasonable to believe in something on insufficient evidence. You can’t prove that Santa Claus exists either, so does that mean that you should make sure to put out cookies and milk every Christmas? Just in case. Of course not. How can you be certain that Santa doesn’t exist? You should be agnostic toward Santa just as you are toward God. But the issue is one of belief not knowledge. You don’t believe Santa really exists, do you?

      Thanks.

  • http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

    Wow! It’s not everyday that I see someone manage to combine the old preacher’s trick of claiming to have discovered hidden wisdom by doing exegesis on their favoured ancient text with the old quack’s trick of selling people on the idea of a snake-oil cure-all.

    If there really were a magical cure for cancer, it would awfully unethical to hold it back for a single day, much less four hundred years. How strange that people would be willing to assume there is a good and loving plan in play here.

    • I Am

      I Am…..
      That’s what God is.
      S/he doesn’t give a fukk if we believe or not…..still IS.
      Brain God at work here…completely limited.
      Power is in Livng through the Christ Heart

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        Prove it!

      • http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

        Token promotional pens mislay straight a nonconvertible vivid description, article corridor unbeaten zealand-boundary your eagle differently glissade.

        • ChuckV

          Praise be the FSM that I was not drinking anything when I read your post. I would have choked and died.

          • http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

            I’m feeling much better now.

  • w1z11

    Hmmm…Matthew 4 Protocol? Not really sure what it means, in and of itself, but I dare say the “secret” here is more about “faith” and “trust” and unquestioning belief in a higher force than humanity; whether we want to call that “God” or something else.

    The beginning of Matthew 4 tells how Jesus (the alleged Son of God) came into the “state of enlightenment”…in much the same way as Buddha and others allegedly attained to their “higher understanding”.

    It seems the prayer and fasting and ultra-zealous commitment to learning Truth (with a capital “T”) might be enough to open some of the channels of the mind (and soul?) that most of us never experience; until, perhaps, at the end of our lives as we “pass on”(?).

    While some of this kind of thing surely sounds like “mumbo-jumbo”, I personally believe we are barely ‘scratching the surface’ with regard to the power of the mind, and the power(s) of the Universe, and the potential for humans to access those powers if they know how to do so, y’know? That is, IM(h)O. I’m just sayin’…

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      When I was younger I was into all that mumbo-jumbo — even as an atheist. I was a level two Reiki practitioner. But the fact is that not a single controlled study has shown any of it to actually work. Until someone can present some actual evidence that the mind has healing powers I just can’t accept such a belief on faith or anecdotal evidence.

      • w1z11

        Yeah, I know there are few, if any, “scientific studies” that can prove (or disprove) these things work (or don’t). Surely, there have been ample anecdotal stories and ‘eye-witness-accounts’ and other so-called evidence, but there’s always not quite enough to ‘prove’ anything. I guess that’s the reason for “faith”. Thx for the feedback.

      • objective

        You are typical of someone with blinders and a limited mental capacity to grasp obtuse concepts that can’t be explained by the 5 senses. It is difficult to discuss things that are beyond your comprehension. But, I will leave you with this thought: your mind controls your immune system, you just don’t understand how. You are limited in your wisdom indeed.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          You may be correct that the mind does control our immune system, but I would like to see evidence of this before just taking your word for it. Your senses might be deceiving you and that is why science does studies to minimize conformation bias.

          • objective

            Like I said, I won’t waste anymore time, but let me quit on this note, (not really sure why I’m even responding, I know where this usually ends up). Try and open up YOUR mind and quit being so narrow minded. How do you think you get rid of a cold or heal a cut, it is your mind/brain. It is done automatically, our conscious mind, (for most of us),doesn’t have the capacity to handle all of our autonomous functions. But there is a link to healing with the mind. I myself have rid my self of chronic back pain, through purging, prayer, surgery and cortisone shots. I was walking with a cane for a year. I’m sure you will say the medical process fixed it, but it was a combination, because the surgery didn’t initially correct it. I’m sure you know folks that have had back problems and surgery and they are none the better for it. The mind is very powerful. Negativity in your psyche manifests in the body and is unhealthy. You seem to be very negative and judgmental. Your mind can fix that too.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Actually, you are the one being negative, judgmental, and close minded. Like I said before, my mind is wide open. I am willing to accept that you might be correct. All you have to do is present some valid evidence. That’s it. You on the other had are not interested in evidence. You have made it clear that your mind is made up and this shit works. No amount of evidence or lack of evidence will convince you. But the fact is that studies have been done on the power of positive thinking on health and those studies have shown that if positive thinking helps at all, it isn’t much. We are not seeing positive thinking healing people at a significant rate or number. It is basically within the margin of error. That’s just the facts. You can claim that you feel healed or that you believe your positive thinking healed you, but you have not provided valid evidence for these claims. You can name call me all you want and say that I am a negative, judgmental, and close minded person, but that doesn’t change the fact that you have no valid evidence for your claims.

            Come back when you have actual scientific evidence and I would gladly switch my position on this topic.

          • Roy Watts

            I’ve got a novel idea. How about YOU prove that God and Heaven don’t exist and you can persuade all of us Christians to convert to your way of thinking.

            I’d personally rather believe in God and be completely wrong about it than to completely close off my mind and refuse to even consider the thought I could be wrong and then die and burn forever in a Hell that you don’t believe exists.

            Until you can prove to me that God does NOT exist – I’m just going to continue to have faith and believe.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I too have a “novel” idea. How about you Google Pascal’s Wager.

          • Roy Watts

            Well, I read about the wager but sadly, I’m not convinced He doesn’t exist. I guess you can believe He doesn’t exist if you choose – that is certainly up to you but I look at all creation and just can’t get there from here. I’m not convinced that each individual on this planet could just evolve into a human being created with trillions of cells, each unique with their own DNA and each with their own individual fingerprints – no two alike. How could anyone NOT believe in a Creator who could create billions of different people? That’s not to mention the birds, insects, trees, fish and every other creation that exists today. Talk about faith! To believe that everything that exists today just evolved from a dust particle or organism in to what we are today? To me, that might actually be having more faith than believing in a Creator and Almighty God.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You read about Pascal’s Wager? Did you read all the logical problems with the Wager? If not, read more about it.

            Second, It isn’t faith when you have actual evidence. The evidence for evolution via natural section crosses every scientific discipline and has become pretty much settled science. Gravity is a weaker theory. This to me shows your complete ignorance about science and reality.

            This is the reason why I have to speak out against the ridiculousness of religion. You are making the world dumber by denying reality. Are you one of those people who believes that the world is only 6000 years old? I bet you are. You type on a computer that sends your words up into space and back down to Earth and into all the homes that can read my blog. That shit seems like magic, but it isn’t. It is science. It is how humans have been able to create tools using our understanding to the world through science. But someone like you could just as easily throw up their hands and say, “magic,” and that would be that. You don’t understand how people could have evolved from other life forms? God must a gone and done it. Magic!

          • Tim Tian

            LOL, srsly this is the 4th out of the ~40 thats tried to shift the burden of proof.

          • K

            “You are typical of someone with blinders and a limited mental capacity to grasp obtuse concepts.”

            You seem to be very negative and judgmental. Your mind can fix that too.

      • I Am

        Wait until you get ill…medical industry takes all your money, STILL hasnothin to offer you….even hope. THEN, if you are as blessed as I Am….you’ll use your free will to Seek Truth….and you Will experience Christ’s healing. and SEE.

    • kraut2

      “I personally believe we are barely ‘scratching the surface’ with regard
      to the power of the mind, and the power(s) of the Universe,”

      Channeling Chopra?

    • Diane H

      I’m with you. ; )

    • Nerdsamwich

      If something only works if you believe in it, how was it discovered?

      • w1z11

        I guess it was ‘discovered’ by some who learned to truly believe. I can’t say I’ve learned that yet, though I continue to work on it. I’m convinced there’s much more “power” available to humans than many of us realize…and it has to do with the spiritual realm, I think. I’m just sayin’…

        • Nerdsamwich

          But believe what? If it only happens when someone believes in it, and it’s nothing someone would have imagined out of thin air, how would someone start believing in it for the first time? How do you “truly believe in” a thing that you’ve never heard of, and only exists if someone believes in it? It’s like the chicken and the egg, but purely mental. Where does it come from? And could you give a specific example or two of these abilities?

          • w1z11

            Ahh…believe in “IT”, of course…lol.

            Seriously, I think some of these things are the kinds of things that are simply “given” to some people.

            Sometimes, we think of it as “Gifts from God”, like when certain children have some special talent at very young ages (playing piano, advanced mathematics, world-changing inventions and philosophies, and others).

            I wonder if folks like that might have something rather ‘special’ that most people never experience. And, if so, maybe it’s those people who truly learn to ‘believe’ in some of the ‘hidden’ forces out there, y’know?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I’m confused. are you implying that if a child has a developmental problem that they are then a punishment from God?

          • w1z11

            Sorry…no…I’m not saying a “developmental problems in children are a punishment from God”. I see you’re not ok with the “gift from God” thing, but that’s alright. In actuality, it might be that developmental problems may well be a sort of “punishment” for something, though I wouldn’t dare even attempt to try to figure out what.

            In Nature, offspring with less-than-desirable traits or other ‘weaknesses’ are often the ones that are selected by predators…Nature’s way of keeping the species strong. Likewise, those with desirable traits and strengths are the ones that thrive and keep the species going strong.

            Whether or not we want to believe some folks are truly “gifted” by God (or the Universe, or whatever else we wish to call the ‘forces’ which have brought everything to be) is probably immaterial, and perhaps I shouldn’t even use that term. But, to me, since I do believe in God (a Supreme Being or Intelligence behind all Creation), I like to think of people with extraordinarily specialized talents as being “gifted” in a positive way.
            I’m just sayin’…

        • Nerdsamwich

          Believe how? If a thing doesn’t exist, even as a concept, how do you start to believe in it? Could you give me some examples of these “powers” so we can talk more concretely?

          • w1z11

            These “powers” are way beyond my own understanding, but I am convinced there are “forces” all around us we just don’t understand, cannot even acknowledge, perhaps because we don’t yet have any ways to detect them.

            I think of life as being similar to many other things in Nature. That is, when we think of light, for instance, we know now that the whole electromagnetic spectrum, which includes what we call “visible light”, is actually much bigger and much more complex than what we are able to see or otherwise detect, except with specialized instruments.

            Actually, the same holds true for sound, smell, hearing, even touch. In other words…all of our senses only work within a very limited segment of the entirety of each ‘spectrum’. Without instrumentation, we wouldn’t even know about some of these things.

            We sometimes talk about our “sixth sense”…which is thought to represent our intuition, our ability to “know” about something without actually having any solid, verifiable ability or reason for why we might know that particular thing.

            So far, I guess we have not developed any instruments which can detect the rest of the “Life-spectrum”, but I am convinced it is much more involved than the current level of human awareness and human life as we now know it. Again…”I’m just sayin’…”

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            The “sixth sense” is our brain, which works much faster than our conscious mind can process. There are no hidden powers there.

          • Nerdsamwich

            But if you can’t even fathom what effects a thing might have, how would you start to “believe in” it, so that it could start to manifest those effects that you can’t even imagine?

          • w1z11

            Ahhh…don’t get wrapped around the axle…I think you’re trying too hard to negate “faith”…which, as we know, is a belief in something that cannot (yet) be verified or ‘proven’ with means which will satisfy our “physical” senses or logic.

            There are many “unseen” and “unknown” things all around us, that we slowly learn of over time…and, some things we learn in depth, others, not-so-much.

            I think “faith” is one of those things many of us shy away from, since it smacks of ‘fairy tales’ and ‘fantasies’ that “educated, civilized adults” just aren’t expected to hold onto too dearly in our current society and culture. “If you can’t see, smell, taste, hear or touch it, maybe it doesn’t really exist” seems to be the mantra for much of this kind of thing, I guess.

            I’m just sayin’…

          • Nerdsamwich

            I’m just saying, it seems kind of odd. Seems like you’d need to take a shotgun approach, and start sincerely believing in all sorts of random stuff until one of them manifested a “belief-based” effect.

          • w1z11

            I’m not sure of the ‘shotgun approach’, although that’s probably not a bad analogy…but it sounds a bit too ‘accidental’. I think it’s just a matter of having an open mind to anything…anything at all. I think science has shown that the “impossible” often becomes the “possible” once it is better understood and studied and put through tests, and so on.

            We’ve seen evidence of this kind of thing throughout history…sometimes even at the risk of death or other peril…of some of those early “free-thinkers”. Societies and cultures attempt to control some peoples’ ideas on some things for various reasons (religious, political, economic, military, etc.), and it is sometimes difficult to broach new and fantastic concepts, even today.

            I think humanity is still very, very young (on the grand scale)…and it has a very long way to go before it truly understands some of the really important things about our own existence in a vast Universe rife with mysteries and miracles we simply cannot begin to fathom, y’know?

  • Me

    Weeeeee….look everyone – I’m an ATHIEST!! I don’t believe in anything and I’ll just be worm food after I die but before I go – I’ll ridicule everyone who has faith in God. Sure, I’m not helping anyone but it makes me feel better about my empty, unfulfilled life!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Weeee… look at [email protected] – He’s the guy ridiculing people who he falsely claims ridicule others and is too cowardly to sign his name.

      As for me, I criticize ridiculous beliefs because many of those beliefs are dangerous! This Bible cure for cancer is a perfect example. People with cancer should see a doctor instead of trying to find some hidden medical cure in a 2000 year-old book written by sheep herders.

      • saved by grace

        Not sheep herders. fishermen,physician and James and Jude half brothers of Jesus and Paul aka as Saul who was a very educated man and at one time a very important man of the Jewish religion, He killed many Christians until he met Jesus and his life was changed forever. Read your history

    • A happy Christian

      Your life wouldn’t be empty and unfulfilled if you had faith in God. I feel sorry for you on judgement day. Praise God in the highest!

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        My life is far from empty and unfulfilled. Shame on you for judging my life without knowing anything about me and shame on you for your threats of eternal torture. Fortunately, your threats are empty because Hell is imaginary too. Reality is much more fulfilling than 2000-year-old horror stories.

        If you had evidence for your claims, you wouldn’t need faith. But since you have no evidence, all you left with is faith. How do you know that your deity of choice is real?

        • James Seidel

          If you, the atheist, are correct you die and worms eat your rotting corpse. If you are incorrect you die and the worms eat your rotting corpse. I have Faith in the true God, you have no faith and no hope and maybe it is because the path to hell is wide and the way is easy. The path to heaven is narrow and few will enter. You have condemned yourself by choice. Good for you.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            If I’m right and there is a billion dollars in everyone;s backyard, then you will live the rest of your life without a million dollars, but if you are right and there isn’t a billion dollars in everyone’s backyard, then you still won’t have a billion dollars. I have faith that there is a billion dollars in everyone’s backyard. You just need to look for it. But you have no faith and no hope of every finding a billion dollars in your backyard. That’s so sad. Poor you. :-)

          • James Seidel

            Cleaver child is still subject to Universal laws, You assume I have a back yard. Good for you.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You do have a backyard, but it is a spiritual one. ;-)

          • James Seidel

            RECALL NOTICE:

            The Maker of all human beings (GOD) is

            recalling all units manufactured, regardless of

            make or year, due to a serious defect in the

            primary and central component of the heart.

            This is due to a malfunction in the original

            prototype units code named Adam and Eve,

            resulting in the reproduction of the same defect

            in all subsequent units. This defect has been

            identified as “Subsequential Internal Non-

            morality,” more commonly known as S.I.N., as

            it is primarily expressed.

            Some of the symptoms include:
            1. Loss of direction
            2. Foul vocal emissions
            3. Amnesia of origin
            4. Lack of peace and joy
            5. Selfish or violent behavior
            6. Depression or confusion
            7. Fearfulness
            8. Idolatry
            9. Rebellion

            The Manufacturer, who is neither liable nor at

            fault for this defect, is providing factory-

            authorized repair and service free of charge

            to correct this defect. The Repair Technician,

            JESUS, has most generously offered to bear

            the entire burden of the staggering cost of

            these repairs. There is no additional fee

            required.The number to call for repair in all

            areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R. Once connected,

            please upload your burden of SIN through

            the REPENTANCE procedure. Next,

            download ATONEMENT from the Repair

            Technician, Jesus, into the heart component.

            No matter how big or small the SIN defect

            is, Jesus will replace it with:
            1. Love
            2. Joy
            3. Peace
            4. Patience
            5. Kindness
            6. Goodness
            7. Faithfulness
            8. Gentleness
            9. Self control

            Please see the operating manual, the

            B.I.B.L.E.(BEST Instructions Before Leaving

            Earth) for further details on the use of these

            fixes.

            WARNING: Continuing to operate the

            human being unit without correction voids

            any manufacturer warranties, exposing the unit

            to dangers and problems too numerous to list,

            and will result in the human unit being

            permanently impounded. For free emergency

            service, call on Jesus.

            DANGER: The human being units not

            responding to this recall action will have to be

            scrapped in the furnace. The SIN defect will not

            be permitted to enter Heaven so as to

            prevent contamination of that facility. Thank you

            for your attention!

            - GOD

            P.S. Please assist where possible by

            notifying others of this important recall notice,

            and you may contact the Father any time by

            ‘Knee mail’!

            Because HE Lives!

            Working for God on earth doesn’t pay much…but

            His retirement plan is out of this world!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, God really fucked up the product if his company has to issue a recall. I hope they fired his incompetent ass.

          • I Am

            Free will baby. God didn’t fuck up nothing….even you ;)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            What a poor design on his part then. Too bad he didn’t have the foresight to see how bad his product would turn out. If he did, then he wouldn’t need the recall. Besides, free will is an illusion.

          • BetsPink

            Good for you. Then you won’t mind if I pray for you.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Knock yourself out. I hope you don’t mind if I think for you… since you sure as hell ain’t doing it.

          • brett

            Dangerous, that comeback is the greatest ever. Good job!

          • Justsomeguy151

            There is no comeback for being stupid and arrogant.

          • Gods servant

            I will pray for all of you!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
          • Tim Tian

          • Bryan

            “aren’t”

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            Once again “Dangerous” you throw insults but don’t want to be insulted. Simply because someone isn’t following YOUR thought process doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking. They’re just not thiinking like YOU. Free choice right? I’m just saying You have the choice to be sarcastic or not, which has nothing to do with YOU thinking, right? I thought the remark about you thinking for someone was a good retort by itself. That was top shelfthe last part put it underneath the bar, below your class if you will. Just my opinion, which probably is worth much to you. But hey it’s mine.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I respond in kind. As it is with all things, it is the thought that counts.

          • Tactical111

            Waste your time if you want. It’s ultimately the power of the mind and thought. It’s not WHAT you believe it’s THAT you believe. Believing in the Easter Bunny will get you the same results. “and the WORD WAS god”. A word is the manifestation of a thought; get it???

          • Your parents fucked up their design DT. I’m going to guess your mommy’s a whore and your daddy just a shadow in her dreams.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Lol, wow how did you know? I love how nice Christians are and then they accuse atheists of being the meanies. I guess if you don’t have any evidence for your claims, just call people’s mothers a whore. Personally, I think whore get a bad rap. I mean they get to have sex all the time and that’s awesome. Plus, they get paid for it and that is even more awesome. If my mother was a whore, I would be damn proud of her. But then again, I’m damn proud of her no matter what she does because she’s my mother.

          • anthony

            if there was a like comment button here, I would click it!
            good on you for loving your mother like this!

          • mtnfraggle

            Wow, is this how Christians respond to atheists?

          • Scott

            NO!! That statement was the stupidest of all the statements I have read so far in this discourse. Every parent does their best to raise their children the best they can.
            And everyone is valued by God, our Creator, whether we believe in Him or not

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Valued so much that he created a system which would allow for the eternal torture of billions of people. I wonder what he does if he doesn’t value you…

          • Scott

            This comment in no way reflects what true followers of Jesus think.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            How can you claim to be a “true follower of Jesus” and yet reject that this guy is? He claims to be a “true follower of Jesus” and would probably say you are not. Neither of you actually follow the Bible, so I don’t really think either of you are true followers of Jesus. But whatever.

          • Scott

            Well, let’s just say that I’m not a follower of Jesus, that statement is still wrong. And it’s not an ignorant statement, it is a stupid statement and is only harmful to a healthy discourse. I’m sure all of us can agree on that.
            However, since I am a follower of Christ, I can say that that statement is also something that Christ would not approve of. Now, that doesn’t mean that I claim to know the mind of Christ or God, far from it, but I do know what Jesus taught. He taught us to love everyone just as He loves us. And there are no conditions on that love. If you spit in my face I am still to love you. Jesus also teaches that if another follower of His makes a misstep and says or does something stupid as the commentor above did, then it is my duty as a follower of Jesus to point that out to the brother or sister in order to help them stay on the ‘right track’.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Jesus also taught to hate your family and to give away all your money. Do you hate your family Scott? Did you give away all your money Scott? He also said that it was better to cut off your hand and pluck out your eye because it is better to lose body parts than it is to lose one’s soul in Hell to be tortured for all eternity. I’m just trying to let you know what Jesus said to help you stay of the “right track.” Although, I don’t really think that is the “right track” after all and I think you probably should stray from it for your own good and the good of the rest of society.

          • Scott

            Here’s the problem. Everyone, including christians, take excerpts from the bible to try and prove or disprove a point. However, the bible has to be considered as a whole in order for anything to make sense.

            Christ did not tell us to hate our family. What that means is that if we love our family more than we love Christ, then we need to rethink.
            If we love money more that Christ, we need to rethink.

            Our family, although very important, cannot save us from the fact that someday we are going to die.

            The LOVE of money is the root of all evil, not having it.

            And if you will consider the bible from cover to cover, you will find that God and Christ lay great importance in the family.

            Consider that Christ while hanging on the cross, dying for all mankind, he took to time to put the care of his sweet mother into the hands of John.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            The Bible isn’t a whole!!!! It is 66 separate books written by a variety of different people (many of whom were anonymous) at different times, for different reasons, with difference messages. Then they were voted on, edited, translated, mistranslated, etc. We don’t even have the originals. In fact, there may not have even been originals.

            You are altering what the Bible says right here. The Bible does not say that we should love Jesus more than our family. It says that in order to follow Jesus you must hate your family. That is what our oldest Bible has to say. Jesus talks about giving all your money away — not once, not twice, but multiple times. He was very clear on this point because he wanted his followers to spread the word that the end of the world was coming within a single generation. Give your money away and let everyone know. Oops, Jesus was wrong. 2000 years later we are still here and you have still not given away all of your money like Jesus repeatedly commanded you to do.

            Actually, our family is the thing that can save us from the fact that we are going to die. We live on through our family. I will continue to live on even after I die because my genes have been passed onto my children. My knowledge and experience has been imparted to those around me and so I will live on though those who remember me.

            Jesus repeatedly commanded his followers to give all their money away. Yes, the love of money is evil, but he also said that his followers should give all their money away and focus on preaching the end times. Read your Bible; it’s in there.

            No, God says that men are important and that women are merely a man’s property. If a man rapes a single woman, he must pay the woman’s father for damaging his property. If a man rapes a married woman, then he has committed a crime against the woman’s husband. But it is never about the woman. Jesus disrespected his mother and called another woman swine. He didn’t care about women either. It isn’t’ about the family; it was always about the men and worshiping the deity. Jesus told his followers to hate their family and follow him. He was the Son of Man.

            He took the time to give his property over to another man. How sweet, lol.

          • Scott

            Again, you are correct. The bible was written by different people. Over many years. And through the years mankind has made errors in translation and some make it say what they want it to say. This is why you have to look at the bible as a whole and understand the history behind it all.

            Even I can mis-state what the bible says. But one thing that I will always stand firm on: Jesus is NEVER wrong.

            Jesus put his mother in the charge of someone else so that when He was gone He could be sure that she is taken care of. I do the same thing when I have to go away for a few days from my family. I put my eldest son in charge of the household be cause is is the oldest male who will be in the house while I’m gone. I do this not because my wife is my property, but because I love her and want her taken care of.

            The entire bible, including the old Testament tries to teach us that women are important. Take the story of Rahab, possibly a Harlot, but because of what she did, she was part of the family line that produced our Savior, Jesus. Then there is Ruth, Esther, Mary-Jesus’ Mother, Mary Magdelene and so on. If you look at the history behind the writing, it was done by men who believed that women and slaves were property. It’s not right, but God does allow us free will to chose to do the wrong or right thing.

            The Scriptures lay out how the family hierarchy should work. The father is the head and is to love his wife as Christ loved the church even unto death. What about that is disrespectful to women?

            Children are to respect their mother and father.

            Thanks to Esther, a King changed his mind and did not wipe out the entire Hebrew nation.

            Proverbs pays close attention to the importance of the family and the wisdom that can be gained from the family unit. The Song of Songs talks about the love relationship between a husband and wife and tells how the man should be gentle and loving and respectful to his wife. Show me this disrespect there?

            Ok, I just gave you a lot of ammo. Go!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I just pointed out to you where Jesus said that the end of the world was coming within a single generation and the obviousness that he was wrong and then you say that no matter how much evidence I point out, you will dogmatically hold that Jesus was never wrong. Look, I’m open to you convincing me that I might be wrong. If you can present some valid evidence for your claims, I will believe them. I hold nothing as dogma. But when you say that no matter what, you will “stand firm” on the view that Jesus was never wrong even after being pointed out places where Jesus was absolutely wrong, then I don’t know what to tell you.

            To claim that the Bible authors do not treat women as property is absurd. I pointed out some examples of this already and I didn’t even mention where Paul talks about how women shouldn’t be allowed to teach men or how women are called, “unclean” while menstruating. I didn’t point out how women were created from man’s rib or how even though Eve ate the apple first, it was Adam’s sin that was the cause of “original sin” (a ridiculous concept in and of itself). The Bible is not just anti-woman, it is extremely anti-woman. You would have a better case if you were arguing that the Lorax hates trees than the Bible loves women.

            The thing is, I get the impression that you really haven’t actually read the Bible cover-to-cover. You also don’t seem to know how it has changed over time or how verses have been interpreted over time. Women didn’t get the right to vote in America until the 1920s. This was largely because the Bible is anti-woman. Those who led the suffrage movement were many atheists and secularists. Just as we are the force fighting for the rights of gays and lesbians today and we were the force fighting for civil rights in the 1920s and ’30s too. The Bible is not a book of peace and love. It is a book of hate, fear, discrimination, and death, and then eternal torture.

            I do have some great news though, it’s almost all fiction. Genesis was just a myth told by primitive people to understand the world, The Exodus never happened, most in not all the wars in the OT never happened, Jesus probably didn’t even exist either. Their is no contemporary accounts of his life or death and much of his story was stolen from a guy name Simon who lived a few years earlier. The great news is that Hell and Heaven don’t actually exist and that God is imaginary. You are free to live your life and create your own purpose. Enjoy your life, it is the only one you have. :-)

          • Scott

            Ok, lets go bit by bit. First, I never said that the men who wrote the bible did not think of women as their property. I believe the historical evidence actually supports that. However, I will tell you that most bible believing folks to not ascribe to that belief because God ultimately teaches us through the scriptures that we all have value and we all have a purpose whether we are Male, female, slave, free, etc. The fact that Eve was created from Adam and that it was Adam’s sin merely establishes the family structure. The man is the spiritual head of the family and the female is his helpmate. Each one has their role to play, but the man is ultimately responsible for his family.
            Jesus and His prophecy. His prophecy was not wrong but was a warning that we need to live in moment by moment expectation of His return. After all, even Jesus does not know the time of His coming. God, the Father, will let Him know when it is time.
            Unfortunately, the bible has been translated in many ways by fallible mankind. Women have been treated unjustly through the years just as have slaves of all colors, nations, and tribes.
            As far as the bible goes, I think this is what the bible as a whole teaches us.
            In the old Testament we start with God establishing the fact that He is the creator of all things. And He lets us know that He desires a relationship with us whom He created in His image. He communed and walked with Adam and Eve in the garden. He chose a people, the Hebrews, through which He would make Himself known to the world. But, mankind is sinful. Because of free will we have fallen from the original state that He created. All the rules and laws in the old Testament are there to show us that there is nothing we can do to justify our sinfulness in God’s eyes. There is nothing we can do to restore us to that original state. But, because God does love us and wants to have a relationship with us, He provided a way for us to be reconciled. Thus, we have the New Testament. He sent His Son, God in the flesh, to experience what we experience. All of our temptation, pain, suffering etc, He knows our life. The Jesus, in fulfillment of prophecy, died on the cross for the sin of mankind. All of us. Including those who don’t believe. He was sinless, perfect. The spotless lamb sent for our sacrifice. By believing in Him we are able to be restored and justified to God. The greatest story/truth is that we don’t have to work to prove ourselves, we simply believe in Christ who has already done the work.

          • Rational Muslim

            I read your article on free will being an illusion and I believe that you are making a logical misstep and that you also misrepresent what free will actually is.

            We will begin with the misunderstanding. First of all, free will is NOT “complete control over our actions.” It instead is a statement that we can make choices although within an understanding of free will one can also agree that our choices of actions are LIMITED by our environment and genetics.

            If you had begun with that premise, I believe that it would have been easier to read your article because about half of it seemed to be stating this point, with which I happen to concur but then you go on and this is where I believe your logic breaks down. This could be because I have not quite grasped the nuance of your argument and so perhaps you can demonstrate where I have gone wrong in my understanding of it but you refer to our choice as a “determined choice” and that because we do not consciously realize our choices are being shaped on the subconscious level, then free will is an illusion. Fair enough. However, would you go so far as to argue that choice itself is an illusion? After all, if our choices are COMPLETELY determined by genes and environment, there is no choice at all and that is where the argument breaks down because you earlier argued that “My claim isn’t that we don’t have choices but rather that our choices are not “freely determined.”” The only case where your argument will not fail the logic test is if you would agree that our choices while not completely free are not completely determined either.

            What appears to be your argument opens up a can of worms with regard to our criminal justice system since our entire concept of culpability must be tossed out. After all, if our choices are predetermined, then how can one be held responsible for one’s actions in the first place? Indeed, what is the point of punishment at all?

            Yet ironically science offers you (and the believer) a way out. Quantum mechanics suggests that there is, in fact, some degree of randomness in the universe and that even on the subatomic level particles make “choices” that are of a nondeterministic nature. In such a case, we have free will and it is not an illusion (though the degree to which we have free will may be illusionary) but then again so do subatomic particles which quantum mechanics has already shown behave in an indeterministic manner.

            Please correct my misunderstanding of your point if I have misrepresented it.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            This isn’t really the space for this conversation, but okay.

            You make a choice and you think you are free to make whatever choice you made, but the fact is that the you that made that choice didn’t really have a choice at all. That choice was determined by your nature and nurture. You can choose whatever you like, but what you like was already chosen by your nature and nurture. It is all an illusion.

            You are looking at the justice system all wrong. We shouldn’t put criminals away to punish them, we should put them away to keep society safe and to hopefully influence their nurture so that they come out of prison and no longer commit crimes. Some will also claim that putting criminals in prison will influence the nurture or other people who might otherwise commit crimes, but being exposed to this new data, are now deterred.

            Sam Harris has a great book on Free Will, called “Free Will.” It isn’t a perfect book and it leaves a lot out, but it is short and a quick read. I highly recommend it: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006IDG2T6/ref=nosim?tag=dangtalk-20&linkCode=sb1&camp=212353&creative=380549

          • Rational Muslim

            Thanks. I will read the book. However, you are taking me a little too far when you say that I am “looking at the justice system all wrong.” I agree with you regarding your statement about trying to keep society safe but that can be accomplished far better by NOT placing them in prison. Prison is hardly the ideal sort of place to generate rehabilitation. Indeed, it is FAR better to isolate them from society but generally let them have a degree of freedom within that isolation. See, for example, the great work that Scandanavian countries have done in this regard. However, this is still very problematic because we must dispense with the notion of culpability if free will is an illusion. After all, what is the difference between someone who is insane and someone who is sane when it comes to a crime if there is no free will? There is none. The mere statement that they know the difference between right and wrong is meaningless. This will cause grave issues within the broader society because regardless of how you or I feel, people want to see “justice” and to them justice means “punishment”.

            Still, I encourage you to think about this from the standpoint of quantum mechanics and recent advances in mathematical philosophy. See, for example, the Free Will Theorem by John Conway and Simon Kochen, which demonstrates that if free will exists then it also exists at the subatomic level.

            Of course, I think that our disagreement over the nature of free will could also be that we are in two different philosophical camps. Your definition of free will ends up determining your belief that free will is an illusion because you believe that Benedict de Spinoza is correct in his assertions and that the work is inherently deterministic at its source. I, on the other hand, view the world as inherently indeterministic because I am a metaphysical libertarian who believes that your actions originate solely with you.

            Of course, I cannot disprove your determinism but you similarly cannot disprove my assertion that there is free will. Indeed, the funny thing is that if there is no free will, there is no point in this (or ANY) attempt to alter reality because reality itself is an illusion with us playing out on a grand stage a massive computer program set in motion at the beginning of creation. Without free will, the nature of sentience is meaningless. We think we exist as independent agents but we do not. Then again, the realization of this is also part of the program as well. Life ceases to have any purpose at all without free will and morality itself is meaningless as well. This entire conception of the universe is something that I, as a committed libertarian, cannot believe (guess I am deterministic at least in that sense then).

            In any case, I look at quantum mechanics for my answers. It is clear from studying it that the world is not as deterministic as you might think.

          • Scott

            Hmmm…I’m still going with Calvinist.

          • scott

            Actually, God did have the foresight to know that we would choose wrong over right which is why he offered his Son, Jesus, to be the ‘fix’ (for lack of a better term) for the problem. Also, your last statement, ‘Besides, free will is an illusion’ is very interesting. Are you sure you’re not Calvinist instead of Atheist? ; )

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Actually, according to the Bible, it wasn’t “foresight” it was aftersight. Second, if God were so perfect, then he wouldn’t have needed the contingency plan at all. Third, science has already shown free will to be an illusion. As a statement of fact, our decisions are based off the complex interactions between our nature and our nurture — our genetic disposition and our environmental conditions. Scientists have actually been able to predict what someone will do seconds before they do it just by studying their brain at that moment in a lab. Calvinists believe God decided. I don’t believe in any gods. So no, I’m not a Calvinist but at least their beliefs are internally consistent on that point.

          • al707

            it’s called free will, everyone gets to choose for themselves. Imagine how boring the world would be if we were all like robots doing the same thing.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Already addressed that.

          • Henry Ford Jr.

            “free will” is nothing more than the mind responding to information it recieved by processing it thru the neural matrix that is your brain. With sufficient knowledge of the information and the mind processing it the answer will always be known (an all knowing being would clearly possess such) and if the information being input and the mind processing it were created by a central source (directly or not) then that source ultimately governs the outcome. God can not be absolutely responsible for creation and omnipotent of that creation and claim ignorance as to the consequences of those actions.

          • Tactical111

            “Free will’ is the biggest cop out of all. It’s the only way you can rationalize that an ” all loving, all knowing, all compassionate being” created this little shithole called Earth.

          • Inexorable Dream

            No, He just gave people like you freedom to choose between faith, and unavoidable death. Maybe one day your 99% accurate science will fail you and you will have nowhere else to turn than to Christ. Maybe not. It honestly is up to you and only you can decide. I have already given you one of many times God has answered my prayers somewhere down under in the blog. For now, keep drinking that kool-aid. When all you have is the faith in a doctor who is usually mosty right, good luck, I’ve found with most doctors you will need it!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            So you believe in God because you prayed that it would stop raining and it did? Really? That was a “sign” that God was listening to YOU. What about the tens of millions of people who are suffering in the world who pray to God and are still suffering? Go ahead and tell them. Tell them that they are still suffering despite their prayers because God was too busy making it stop raining for you.

          • Inexorable Dream

            DT, While I was driving however fast, I was searching for a tree, a wall, an end. You do not know me or what I have been through. I was losing faith. I did believe, I do believe, but death in itself is NOT God ignoring man. Sometimes it is just time to go. I am only 25. I have had Multiple Sclerosis since I was 15. I was at that point debating between graduating a year early and going to the Air Force Academy to become a pilot on a scholarship or just graduate with my class. Regardless I had my future planned to a point. For nearly 10 years I walked like a zombie, having had fate slam my life to the mud. You know something, all my life I have focused 100% of the time on people. I would give up a lung if I was asked. I wanted to throw it all away that day but I do believe God stopped me. I do not believe in coincidence.
            Another time my family was “coincidently” saved. My youngest 2 brothers were sitting in the back of a pickup with a cap. They were playing cards while my dad drove them somewhere. (This was years ago, I was not with them and do not remember what they doing that day to be in the truck) The cap flew off on I75. They had laid down not even a second before it flew off. Had it hit them, they would be dead.
            God is everywhere. He is beyond time. He hears all prayers and some people He is just ready to bring home. And there is a huge difference between praying to have God do something for you and honestly asking God to be with you.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            So what you are saying is that God saved you, but didn’t care about all the other people (many of which are believers) who are suffering in the world. To the starving families on the city streets, who pray for a job so they can feed their kids, to the the little girl in the hospital who needs a lung transplant; God doesn’t answer their prayers, but he made it stop raining so that you would feel like not killing yourself.

            I was suicidal too at one point and so I can relate a little bit to what you are saying. I asked God why, he was punishing me and allowing those who hurt me to prosper. He didn’t answer. It took me many years to figure out, but the truth was that God doesn’t exist and that I wasn’t the good guy and my enemies weren’t the bad guys. We are all shades of gray. We are all just people trying to do what we think is best and sometimes getting sidetracked along the way. Sometimes we do things that aren’t good. There is no cosmic justice in the world. If we want to atone for our misdeed, prayer to an imaginary deity isn’t going to cut it. We have to try to make things right for those actual people we have wronged or to those who loved them.

            God didn’t stop the rain, the lack of moisture in the air stopped the rain. My son is in pre-school and he is already learning about how moisture builds up in the clouds and when they reach saturation, it rains. When there is no more moisture, it stops raining. Rain dances and prayers don’t control the weather.

          • Tricia

            Wow, ok so I think I have heard enough about religion and belief, atheist and Christians, and those who may have quantum mechanical physics etc.. These comments fist off were to be in relation the above taped advert of Bible un coded “Cure for Cancer” or such.. Then somehow it lead into a slander of Christian’s beliefs and the bible.. to more of all the above with a Buddhist story and monk.. Wow.. how can one get off track so easy trying to impose or stress their belief’s on another.. While I do not care to continue to read comments. Let me say.. Curiosity kills the cat and maybe this is why ANY of us clicked on the link to find out what this was all about.. So I commend anyone for doing so as seeking answers to a question is first and utmost building knowledge yfor weather it was done with close minded how as I was clicking on it. Yes I felt it to be a farce but ok lets see what scam is out there this time. So get over it. Sad part is some people will believe it. Simply said!
            But I cant leave without making my own comments. Let me make this perfectly clear! Nothing anyone can say or do can take away my faith in Christ or God or anything to do with my Christianity.. So yes I am Christian.. Do I condemn Atheist? Not a chance! Do I feel sorry for you? Yes I do. Are all so call factual scientific evidence correct? NO. If you believe that then you are placing your self in a situation to have faith on MAN. You mention to those who are ill and seeking their faith based prayers going un answered. You also mentioned you were once a believer and now an atheist. Lets address both of these issues. The first one. Fact based theory that Doctors have found Radiation and Chemo to assist those with cancer are all curable. Ok lets back up.. to “help kill the cancer” however with that said, the true fact is not just radiation and chemo. It is a healthier life style eliminating certain foods, drinks, etc.. So fact of Radiation and Chemo be the scientific fact is not true. You see, those answers that mentioned of being in the bible is in deed true as the bible does dictate to one on how to obtain health and cure ones self of ailments. The good Lord (or those who you indicate wrote the words) do explain that all that man needs comes from the earth, yatta yatta, meat protein etc.. what to eat and what not to eat. Now look more so into the pharmacology of medicines.. All medications are derived these days from those plants that were grown from the earth.. They develop the study of each plant and it’s purpose as well of combinations of and re create them in a synthetically and controlled environment with additives and chemicals for preservation and speeding up the process etc. This is FACT.. If you do not know this then gain some knowledge.. The same is for Food processing this day to meet this fast pace world we live in. Fact is when it comes to healing a body, we this day in age rely on Physicians to heal with their knowledge of these man made synthetically altered medications injected into our bodies all the while praying to God as man has his input in curing. You ask your doctor if he know the compounds of any medications he administers to his patient along with that scientific study etc and trust he had no clue. He trust and instills his faith upon a research and pamphlets provided to him by the FEDERAL Drug Administration, journals, but mostly by “REPORTED RESEARCH” which again is by man and large companies who have spent countless hours and money to make money to ensure that this medication is beneficial for the public use. When in fact most of these medications alter, disable, and kill the general public. While I do not advocate to stop going to the Doctor and seeking medical advise and prevention of ailments, I do say one has a choice to place their faith in that Doctor and the Good Lord and after that one choose which path to take to place most faith in.. If one is not working, then we are all given a free choice to take the alternative and investigate once we have a diagnosis as to our resources. This used to be the factual case, however when it comes to children, many states remove that from the hands of a parent. Now lets back up even a bit more. On factual evidence. Man makes vehicles, whiskey (alcohol) wines (while this was made way back when) they make planes, homes, tractors, guns, knives, etc.. Men make choices. Man makes a choice to get in a vehicle drunk, kills another, man makes a choice to drive a tractor in a storm gets struck by lightening, man chooses to fly abroad and man makes bombs. It the man who creates these harmful yet useful items, but it at the hands of MAN who uses them for destruction. NOT your so called belief that God is at the center of all forms of evil. This is where you have a choice of free will.. Do you choose to put a man made bullet in a chamber and point the gun.. God did not do that.. You did. Did got tell you to get on that that plane to fly to visit your family and only to find a terrorist on board? No you did, and he is the one who made a choice to arm himself with bombs or the air traffic controller who nodded off instead of watching his control to avoid a collision, or the maintenance man who skipped a vital detail in his duties, or even the manufactures who used sub standard equipment. It is the child or family members who fault for their death or dying body or God fault for this? The first thing people want to do is blame God.. Why would he not stop it.. How can anyone stop man with their choices unless they first look to God for his life for answers? To make right and wrong choices, and place their faith in him first and foremost (at least for me that is ) You see those children in the hospital continue to go through more suffering from the medications they receive as not being natural to the human body that was created by god. While I do not have answers for ALL or every part of the why’s things happen and who they happen too.. I do know some how there was a reason for it. Now lets address this other issue. Your faith.. Hold on.. I am not trying to convert you.. cause good lord knows that I not what I do.. However to help better understand you, you said you ONCE was a believer. You were brought to those depths of hell to consider suicide. I do not know if this is the reason and quiet personally that is between you and God as to why you turned your back on him and belief. With that said, you mentioned why he would bring you to such depths of suicide and asking for answers to the others who were prospering from such.. (sorry I am not good at quoting)… Again, you did not commit suicide (I too have been there.. by medication and no not illegal drugs but those administered for blood pressure) First before you place blame.. seek inside your self and what was happening during that time.. Were you, and I do mean you. Where you in the right place with the faith in God at the time? Or did you just call upon him for answers to the woes you were facing. Now maybe you did have such faith that when you bowed to your knees and did not get any answers, but how often did you really put your faith in him.. Or was it only for your convenience? Keep these thoughts in mind. Remember back when. What it was that you lacked? You see I mentioned I too was suicidal, when I was given a blood pressure med from a doctor along with them destroying my thyroid when I placed my faith in the physicians to know all.. The combination was horrible, and a very strong avid Christian by faith swore that Satan can take my family, strike me dead but he could never take my faith in God that he could not have me.. Well guess what, I repeated those words shortly after wanting my life to end, (a mother of three) and it dawned on me.. what he did.. He attempted to get to me through my mind after all and almost succeeded until I realized it.. I found a renewed faith and determination. I also sought out the why’s and corrected them. Sometimes things are a little too late but one thing that is not, ever to late is God. He is there always, he just wishes more people would believe.. As far a miracles, many have been written, they come is doses that usually no one can recognize them so they really are all around you and effecting your life on a daily basis, sometimes you just have to wake up and take things are not always based on provable fact! Best wishes to all those who managed to read this.. One last input.. Those words that were written over 2000 years ago by sheep herders and fisherman.. are the very words that make up our US judicial system even to this day, and our medical practice system. One can not stand by and say they are a truth atheist as there is good and evil in everyone, it is choice you make because everything good is to come from god and foundation he laid upon mankind to have this free will of choice.. If you choose to follow morals and man laws and right from wrong you are choosing to follow God laws. So in my mind you are not an atheist, no one is.. unless you have total evil hatred for mankind. (Some folks just kind hide their faith as a defiance for proof they may never get) If you were a fly on a wall, you will hear more and more Doctors offer their services, but to advise spiritual, and alternative healing techniques and properties for such issues as cancers, tumors, etc.. I know last week my mom was determined to have stage three small cell lung cancer, so with radiation, chemo and alternatives are being used along with the power of the holy one guiding her through the process. To explain, I have faith in Doctors as does she, she elected to treat the outside in,, all the while treating the inside out.. One blast of what scientific radical approach is suppose to be supportive is all they will get as God did give man knowledge, after that she will be handed over to god for his healing inside out with the healing properties of the earth, Flax seed oil, bitter apricot seed, teas, asparagus, berries, celery.. All grown naturally. Best wishes to all..

          • Tricia

            Oh Lordy! I have to keep on so no one misunderstand me.. Clearly I am no scholar, and further not educated.. but please also understand I do not hold any ones else’s faith or religion lesser than my own.. My faith is Christianity. I do not shun my nose into the air and hatred towards anyone who has their belief in any other religion. The truth be told, most religions believe in “ONE” higher power no matter who you may call him or it.. I will not say mine if better or superior to anther as I am not placed here on earth as a judge and I sure hope I have not come off as one. I have merely stated my (what may some may consider) narrow minded input.

          • Tactical111

            “Belief in a deity is the folly of a fool.”

          • mtnfraggle

            Tricia: “Nothing anyone can say or do can take away my faith in Christ or God or anything to do with my Christianity.”
            And this is why you are a fool, choosing choosing to believe whatever you want no matter what contrary evidence comes your way. An ostrich with her head in in the sand, a child putting her fingers in her ears saying “LA LA LA, I can’t hear you!” That is the nature of faith.

          • Tim Tian

            nice essay

          • Rational Muslim

            The placebo effect suggests that if you believe something will work, it tends to work better than if you lack such belief. There is nothing wrong with people praying in addition to taking other active steps to cure diseases (so long as they do not use prayer as a substitute for undertaking scientifically valid steps). It certainly will not hurt (provided they are still doing the other activities that we know based on scientific evidence will help). As to your point, though, I think it is better to realize that prayer was never meant to be a “hotline to heaven”. It reminds me of a joke: God answers all prayers. Occasionally he says yes. Often he says no. But usually he responds with you have got to be kidding.

            So how does he “answer” prayers? Well, the way to think of it is simple: he doesn’t. If God regularly interfered with the world, it would become readily apparent that there actually IS a God. This proof would instantly destroy faith since when we do not have faith EXCEPT when there is no proof. I don’t have faith that if I walk off a ledge, I will fall. I KNOW that I will fall because of this thing called gravity.

            The problem is most religious people claim absolute knowledge that there is a God and that means that they are going around demanding proof. Since they are so desirous of that knowledge, they invent the proof and thus deny faith, which ultimately means that they destroy the very basis that they themselves argue will save them. The only way to reconcile this and to still be a believer is to be an agnostic theist, which is what I am and since one cannot claim knowledge of the nonexistence of something, the only rational position of the atheist is to also be an agnostic.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I agree with you on this one. Prayer won’t hurt as long as people are using the tools of science also. My point is that prayer won’t help either. It is the zero that can be factored out of the equation.

            Interestingly enough, praying to a milk jug also yields the same results. Milk jugs answer prayers in the form of yes, no, and wait too.

            I am an agnostic atheist. Most atheists are.

          • Rational Muslim

            You are incorrect about the effect of praying to a milk jug UNLESS you are a milkjugitarian (a believer that God is a milk jug). Scientific studies *do* show that the placebo effect does indeed work with regard to self-prayer. It doesn’t work on praying for others though unless the others know that they are having someone pray for them. It also only works for those who actually believe. I think in the case of atheists, you would simply believe that you can will yourself back to health and it would accomplish the same thing as the believer’s prayer to God.

            In any case, I think that it is ridiculous to argue over whether God exists (since we cannot know whether He exists or not–I believe, you do not, que sera sera) and I do not understand why theists even care if you are an atheist. I am not an atheist and it doesn’t hurt atheists that I am a theist, so why should I care if you are an atheist, so long as we both agree to not impose our views on others through the collective power of government or other means of force.

            I think that the fear among theists is that atheists will attempt to impose atheism a la what happened in some communist countries. But that is the product of communism, not atheism. Similarly, the problem of religion is NOT the belief in God. The problem of religion is that it is organized religion and that is what breeds the intolerance. If people would treat religion as a personal thing and not try to convert others, things would be much better. Indeed, God Himself suggests the same. With organized religion, we substitute the belief of the group over our own understanding of scripture. This is not what was ever desired or purported to be proper by God. Indeed, a proper reading of the Bible suggests that the founding of the Church was not what Jesus (peace by upon him) intended since he founded no Church during his days on Earth. Nor was today’s organized system surrounding Islam desired by Muhammad (peace by upon him) since the Caliphate was transformed into a corrupt hereditary system after the death of Ali in 661 AD rather than the version that was run under the four rightly guided caliphs. As Abu Bakr (peace be upon him) said when he became the first caliph in 632 AD:

            “The weak among you shall be strong with me until their rights have been vindicated; and the strong among you shall he weak with me until, if the Lord wills, I have taken what is due from them… Obey me as long as I obey God and His Messenger. When I disobey Him and His Prophet, then obey me not.”

            Notice the emphasis on personal interpretation rather than organized interpretation implicit in this statement.

            My grandfather (an Islamic scholar, peace be upon him) taught me that we simply do not know what happens to atheists after they die and, in fact, to state that they will go to hell is to place ourselves in the position of being God (a similar argument can be found in the Bible where Jesus says, “Let one among you who is without sin cast the first stone” as well as “Judge not lest thee be judged”). If Christians (and Muslims) took these sentiments to heart, the world would be a far better place for all concerned.

            I think that what happens after we die is that we are judged in the sight of God. Since at that time we will know for certain who is God (for He will be appearing right before us), we either will accept His judgment or argue with him. From what I have seen from many Christians and Muslims, they will argue with God if He tells them to go to hell. That would be the only unpardonable sin from my way of thinking. I have a sneaky suspicion that many of you atheists would obey God if he were in front of you and told you to go to hell — that would be the way to ensure that you are called back since it is a test of your REAL faith.
            Of course, I could be wrong and there may be no God but I still take comfort in the end that I am righteously guided, as I believe you are as well, because I use rational interpretation (Ijtihad) as well as following my inherent natural sense of right and wrong (fitrah) over blind literal readings of scripture that can lead to evil. The devil never found a better audience than unthinking masses congregated in a house of God.

            Peace be upon you. Your talk is not dangerous talk, dangeroustalk, even for the believer, for what you are claiming is closer to God’s truth than what most purport His truth to be.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I give you the Milk Jug (cap be upon him) ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

          • Rational Muslim

            Cute but that is not what I was referring to. You and I agree that God really doesn’t interfere with mankind (as I pointed out the yes, no, and you’ve got to be kidding was a joke). I was referring to the placebo effect in medicine. Praying to a milk jug cannot cause the placebo effect unless you BELIEVE that the milk jug is God (or can otherwise make you better). The reason that placebos work is because people THINK that it will work. I give you a sugar pill and then tell you that it actually is a wonderful medicine. Self-prayer works the same way when it comes to medicine (it becomes a rationalizing mechanism when it comes to everything else). The milk jug can always be a rationalizing mechanism (just like the lucky rabbit’s foot) but it cannot cause your body to subconsciously heal itself (the placebo effect) unless you actually believe it can do so.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            There have actually been studies on the affect of prayer. While some studies have shown a slight placebo effect in the positive direction, some studies have actually shown that those prayed for got worse do to the placebo effect. Most have shown that prayer does nothing at all and that there was no noticeable placebo effect.

            No matter how you want to slice it, it is clear that prayer does not have an affect that God answers it. At best, we are just talking about tricking the mind. There is no supernatural cure that prayer provides. Can we agree on that?

          • Rational Muslim

            To my knowledge, the studies on the effect of prayer that show a negative effect in some cases are based on intercessory prayer, not self-prayer. Intercessory prayer has been shown to be completely ineffective when the subject does not know that he or she is being prayed for (and there was one study that showed people got worse but it cannot be due to the placebo effect since they did not know that they were being prayed for).

            When people know they are being prayed for, the effects are mixed. It is much more difficult to do a scientific study on self-prayer so we default to knowledge of the placebo effect and use the findings of that in order to determine the effects of self-prayer and the findings are that prayer is useful BUT it is useful just like meditation and even laughter is useful. It is a mechanism for us to heal ourselves. As I have repeatedly pointed out, there is no evidence of a supernatural cure (I will not go so far as to say that there is no supernatural cure that prayer provides but that isn’t why self-prayer is useful). Self-prayer is useful because of the placebo effect. You keep mistaking me for someone who believes that God interferes in our lives. I have stated repeatedly that I do not view God as interfering in our lives (and that includes granting prayers) since any perceivable supernatural action (and that would include evidence of supernatural cures) would destroy faith by providing proof.

            Believers should not try to convert non-believers to their cause anymore than I should try to convince you that Miss Oregon is prettier than Miss Virginia. However, the same is true for non-believers with respect to believers. Belief (and nonbelief) in God is not something that you can rationally explain anymore than whether one beauty contestant is more beautiful than another. What nonbelievers CAN do (and OUGHT to do) is convince believers not to be part of ORGANIZED religion in the sense that they uncritically follow the opinions of someone else with regard to what is the meaning of scripture. It is the blind obedience to literalism (or any other interpretive method that goes beyond the individual himself or herself) that is at the heart of all problems with regard to religion. Indeed, the argument is one that can be made for the believer even from within the religion itself. After all, if you follow another’s interpretation of your scripture (and literalism *is* following another’s interpretation just as much as any other dogmatic method is), you have made that person (or method of interpretation) your God and that is denying the true divine. The problem is not God and it is not scripture anymore than we have a problem with knives because someone used them to kill 30 people in China yesterday. No, both God and scripture are simply tools from the perspective of man. Tools that can be used for good OR for evil. The problem is that man has used the idea of God and scripture as a weapon to hurt his fellow man. Take away religion and you simply will have another weapon that people will use to control their fellow man (nationalism, communism, fascism, totalitarianism, etc.).

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Then on the issue of the placebo, we have no disagreement. But as you correctly pointed out, meditation is just as effective. Still, the placebo affect only goes so far. It won’t cure cancer. It may help in conjunction with medical treatment, but no amount of praying or meditation will cure it to our knowledge. So rather than have people believe that prayer works that they stop seeking medical intervention in favor of God while sending $72 to a snake oil salesman, I would think it is better to let them know that there are no supernatural cures through prayer and that they should not give their money to this fraud and instead seek actual medical attention.

            As for persuasion. I see nothing wrong with anyone trying to persuade competent adults in sound mind, of their point of view. Hell, you are trying to persuade me of something right now and that’s cool. The issue with persuasion comes in when people try to take advantage of others who are not in their right mind or are not mentally competent. For example, preaching religion to children is not cool. Children do not have the ability to understand and might not be have the mental capacity to argue back. Another example, preying on people when they are emotionally vulnerable, like after a friend of family member has just died or when they are at their lowest point due to some form of physical addiction (drugs or alcohol). That’s not cool.

            But you seem like you are emotionally stable and an intelligent fellow. So I have no problem trying to persuade you that your belief in a deity is wrong. I am in an emotionally stable position at the moment too, so if you want to convince me that Allah is real, have at it. Give me your best argument. Show me your best evidence.

            I don’t think trying to persuade people in and of itself is a bad thing… especially when I think that the thing that they believe is dangerous to themselves and others. I do think religious belief is dangerous. I think it is a threat to human happiness, human progress, and human survival. When people see faith as equal or better than reason, then there is a serious danger factor and I will try to persuade those people that they are wrong. But I will do it while respecting them as people and not by waiting until they are at their weakest moment to prey on them like so many religious believers do.

          • Rational Muslim

            I don’t try to convince you as to whether Allah is real or not. I wouldn’t convince you of it nor should I even try because it is futile. I might as well try to convince you that Coca-Cola is better than Pepsi-Cola. The same would be said of you trying to convince me. I have tasted both Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that Coca-Cola is the best FOR ME. Just as belief in God is superior to non-belief for me. For you it is the opposite. Just as I would not desire to kill you, imprison you, force you, or even convince you of the superiority of Coca-Cola over Pepsi-Cola, I also do not try to do the same for Islam. What I do hope to convince you of is that you are chasing the wrong goal when you think that religion is inherently evil. You are making a serious mistake in your thinking process because you fail to see organized religion is simply a tool for social control, one that can be channeled towards good or evil depending on who wields it.

            As a libertarian agnostic Muslim, I disdain organized religion, not because it is bad per se (for it is not) but rather because it congregates too much power in the hands of too few. At the same time, I see nothing at all wrong with personal religion (or non-religion) as the case may be provided it is personal in nature. After all, science can become dogmatic as well and there are certain things that scientists take on faith (called axioms) because they believe them to be self-evident (rather like God to the religious). The good thing about science is that it tends to abandon or modify axioms when they are shown to be in error. The bad thing about literalist religious people is that they tend to double down on their own errors when they are to be in error.

            As mankind has learned more about the world, the ability to invoke God to explain things has diminished. But that is the critical error that so many have made. By presuming we need to explain things using God, we attempt to create proofs of God’s existence. If we could prove God existed, He would not be, since it would destroy faith.

            I do disagree with you about teaching religion to children. They do need to be exposed to it but it needs to be with the idea of tolerance and acceptance. I take my children to the local Unitarian Universalist congregation. There they are exposed to a wide variety of viewpoints, including atheism (there are a lot of Unitarian Universalists who are atheists). I also tell them that I believe that there is a God but that God does not interfere in our lives. When we pray to Him, we are not asking for him to do things for us. Only we can do things for ourselves. Prayer is simply an acknowledgement that there is more to the universe than any of us could ever hope to understand and prayer is only of benefit to ourselves when we action comes out of it. God will not respond to you but prayer gives you a realization that you are part of something bigger and is more about having a conversation with yourself and the divine that exists within each of us than attempting to reach the creator of the universe.

            I also point out that I may be wrong and that not everyone believes in God and that’s okay as well. What is important is to be a good person. I therefore also disagree with you with regard to religious belief. It is NOT religious belief that is dangerous. It is the uncritical examination of religion and allowing others to tell you what to believe that is dangerous. When you allow anyone to tell you what to believe and you agree with them uncritically, you make them your god. Religious belief per se is not a threat to human happiness, human progress or human survival. It is when people substitute faith for reason that it becomes a problem. However, when there is no reasonable option available, I see nothing wrong with faith. I have come face to face with death before. I had no means by which I could guarantee my safety. I had faith in my fellow human beings that they would find me and get me to safety. I also have faith in myself that I will live to see another day.

            This is really what originally Muslims meant when we say “Inshallah”, which means “God willing”. As my grandfather (PBUH) told me, God does not work by magic or miracle, He works through man. If you have faith in God, have faith in your fellow man, for that is the only miracle you will ever see on this Earth. If you lack faith in your fellow man, you have no faith in God either. I would think that you would agree with me that this type of faith (not in God but rather in ourselves and in our fellow man and woman) is a good thing.

            I would also hope that we can both agree that the government should not impose a religious faith on the people and it should also not require that people have no faith. Both policies are bad. I may be a Muslim but I can see nothing worse than a theistic state because it multiplies the power of the state a hundredfold. At the same time I would not want to live under a state that outlawed religion because that is merely one additional step towards trying to control all of our thoughts.

            If you try to force people to be good, you will end up with very evil consequences.

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            Ok “Dangerous” after reading all the way down to this I found my answer to my very first question to YOU. Now I would like to respond to the statement YOU made here in regards to an AGNOSTIC ATHEIST.

            FIRST, you can’t be both, they have different defenitions.

            Atheist, agnostic, Infidel, Skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief.

            An Atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings.
            An Agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine.
            An Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity.
            A Skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.

            As an Atheist there is no existence so there is nothing to know. Because it doesn’t exist.
            As an Agnostic it exists, but it’s impossible to know about it because it is beyond our capabilities to know.
            As an Infidel you’re an Atheist.
            As a Skeptic you’re an Agnostic.

            Now if you’re saying that YOU believe it’s impossible to know GOD (physically, which is true) so therefore YOU don’t believe he (GOD)
            exists, that would explain the confusion of being two contradicting things. One that believes but isn’t capable, and one that just doesn’t believe at all.

            My other question if you will, is…What election was held where YOU get to speak for the MAJORITY of the Atheists in the world? A couple of my family & friends might have an issue with that, LOL! IJS. I mean unless YOU have walked the ENTIRE earth & got written permission (the facts) from those who claim Atheism & Agnostism, your claim is not accurate, in…My Opinion.
            I would like to say that I’m not trying to be insulting so if it is received that way, oh well, that wasn’t the intent. I just like to delivery my comments with what I call wit. Which by the way you have. Although it may at times be, to some, insulting. I appreciate it, because if nothing else it’s at least honest.
            Finally Thank You for this forum. I found info on the Bible Cancer Cure that somewhat answered my question about the website being a ploy to make money on the misfortune of others. I really do appreciate YOU for having this. I applaud you, regardless of what YOU believe or don’t believe.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
          • mtnfraggle

            Rodd, you are repeating the same narrow Christian definitions that I learned when I was a kid. Most Most atheists I know are agnostic atheists, which is not the same as just agnostic. An atheist simply does not believe in any gods, a gnostic atheist claims this can be known with certainty, an agnostic atheist recognizes that the existence of any gods is a negative that can not be disproven, but is pretty sure there are no gods. I am an agnostic atheist. I don’t believe in leprechauns either, but if evidence for a god or leprechauns shows up up tomorrow, I will reevaluate my position based on that evidence.

          • Tim Tian

            I say we DON’T know, nothing else

          • Tim Tian
          • mtnfraggle

            Believe or die? You call call that freedom?! What a merciful God you worship!

          • Scott

            Well, actually, we’re all going to die. I’m pretty sure that’s a scientific fact. However, where we end up is determined by how we freely choose to live while on Earth.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
          • Tim Tian

            Just as a side question, is hell isothermic endothermic or exothermic and are there any engineers in hell

          • Bryan

            What is that inaudible context you recognize when you write discourse such as this? Just asking.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            ??? English is more than just words; you have to string those words into a coherent sentence.

          • Tactical111

            No shit. IF there is a god the first thing I’ll do when I see him/her is punch him/her in the mouth for the 15 million kids he lets starve every year. And don’t blame “free will” as he/she/it created that too. Plus, what free will does a starving 2 yr. old have???? It’s total bullshit.

          • perdue1111

            Tactical111…..How many starving children did you help feed, today? Why are you waiting for God to do it? Are you ready for your face to be punched for those 15 million starving kids YOU DID NOTHING ABOUT?

          • Tim Tian

            He tries, god doesn’t that’s the difference

          • Scott

            Maybe God wants you to be the one to help some of those 15 million kids. And if there is no God, then why don’t you help them anyway?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I can’t speak for Tactical111, but as for me, I do try to help those who have no food. I don’t have enough food to help 15 million kids, but I can and do support secular organizations who try to feed and improve the lives of everyone. More than that, I try to help the roughly 5 to 6 billion people who have been infected with the virus of Abrahamic religions. Maybe if religious believers would spend less time and money worshiping your deity of choice and more time and money helping your fellow human beings, the world would be a much better place. Stop living for an afterlife and start living for the current life. Sarah Silverman put it best when she said, “Sell the Vatican, feed the world.”

          • Scott

            Well said DT. There is a lot of money wasted on religion. There is a lot of money wasted in the secular world as well. Please understand, I am not a religionist. I do not believe in a religion. I believe in God and Christ His Son who taught us, God, others, self.
            Just as you do, my family and I, including my 2 teenage sons work in our community to help feed and clothe the poor, adults and children, either through our church or on our own.

            As far as religion is concerned, I religiously brush my teeth everyday, go to work, bathe, etc. That is the only religion I really support.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Right, because Christianity isn’t a religion, but atheism is. I’ve heard that one before too. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but if you believe in a deity, then you are religious! That’s pretty much the definition of the term. But at least you realize that religion is a bad thing. That is progress. But you are a Christian and Christianity is a religion. So please recognize that you are part of a religion and that is not a good thing.

            Yes, money is wasted by everyone, but religion wastes a lot of money swindling good people like yourself. Maybe someday pastors will be required to announce that everything they say is for “entertainment purposes only” just like psychics, but for now it is still a scam. A tax exempt scam too, I might add. Your church is actually taking money from me and my family. We have to pay more in taxes because your church won’t pay it’s fair share. Strange for people who claim to follow Jesus who repeatedly told his followers to give away all their money to horde all their money, don’t you think?

          • Scott

            Actually, I never said atheism is a religion. And I used to be religious, but now I follow Christ and his teaching. I go to a church on Sunday where I socialize with people who are of like mind. However, the organized religions, Baptism, Methodist, etc. play no part in my belief. In fact, they are the catalyst that sends people into non-belief. And sadly, some preachers are nothing but entertainers but to group all together because of the actions of few is a little close minded.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You are a Non-denominational Christian. That is a religion. If you believe in a deity, then you are part of a religion. That is what the word “religion” means.

            All preachers are entertainers. They are storytellers preaching a made up story. Some are just better at it than others. Some are just more entertaining than others. Some are just more convincing than others. But unless any of them have any actual valid evidence for their claims, they are all just fiction-tellers. Prove me wrong. I’m open to it. Present some valid evidence.

          • Scott

            Well, then by that definition that would make atheism a religion as well. To believe that nothing is out there and live accordingly.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Umm, I think you missed the part where you have to believe in a deity to be a religion. Again, the whole Christianity isn’t a religion, but atheism is a religion is just sort of silly, don’t you think? Besides, I’m not married to the label. So whatever you want to call a lack of religion, that would be me. ;-)

          • DebNvest

            Well, this proves that it’s really the Christians who think they are better than Athiests, not the other way around. I saw a few accusations here about how Athiests supposedly think they are better than Christians because of their “facts”. LOL! That has never been the case, we are merely sad for our fellow man (friends, relatives) who are brainwashed by this mass delusion. And we hope that we can somehow get thru to some of them by way of reasoning – researching all the ins and outs….

            and yes, even researching the bible itself! The bible itself is proof enough that it’s not inspired of God. The sad truth is that Athiests tend to know more about the bible than many Christians do. I know, I used to be a devout Christian until a few years ago when I started reading the bible from beginning to end as an adult. I am so glad I did – my eyes are wide open now! I genuinely hope you can too. Don’t believe me? Check out evilbible.com for all the proof you can possibly handle – and you cannot dispute.

          • Michele

            On the contrary, I believe both sides of the debate are extremely condescending on these message boards. I too have read the Bible from cover to cover and found a beautiful love story. The cool thing about the Bible is that no matter how many times you read it, you can find something different each time. I know a woman who has read it front to back every year for many years and is still finding new things. :)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            So you think mass murder and genocide are “beautiful?” Jesus advocated that everyone deserves to be tortured for all eternity. This you find “beautiful?” I guess I have difference definition of that word.

          • Michele

            The book as a whole is a beautiful love story, yes. LOL That doesn’t mean that every individual story is beautiful. Uh, slaughtering entire cities, women, children, livestock. Not so pretty, no.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Most of the book series is filled with the slaughter of cities, women, children, livestock, rape, smiting, advocating for slavery, advocating against women’s rights, more smiting, etc. Do you know how little the Bible talks about love? Even most of that talks about how we should love our dictator and slave master or he will torture us for all eternity. even the love ain’t pretty and it is pretty tough to make mess up love and yet the Bible manages to do it.

          • Michele

            I’m sorry that you see it that way. :( I wish you could see what I see, but I can’t make that happen. I see a lot of love of God for us, us for God, God trying to save us from the evil in the world…etc. The slaughter was of groups of people that were a threat to His people. I’m sure He didn’t enjoy it, but He was certainly going to defend His children. (Israel) If you care about tit-for-tat at all, the Jewish people have suffered a great deal since then. I guess that kind of makes up for their enemies being slaughtered in Bible times? Ha The world is a violent place. Kinda sucks a lot of the time.

          • Tim Tian

            I just think it’s weird that they can believe this stuff.

          • Nerdsamwich

            Are you unaware that the heart has nothing to do with your thoughts or emotions?

          • Corey Firepony

            Well…let me just hop in here and address this. How do you know you believe in the “true god?” Shall you dismiss Vishnu, Raj, Thor, Apollo, Allah or any one of the other millions of gods out there?

            More importantly..what does your point have to do with anything whatsoever? It’s a lame appeal to consequence with no substance or reason to be granted any sort of credibility what so ever.

        • flagirl336

          Atheism simply inserts the individual in the place of God. You decide on morality. You decide what God should or should not be.

          Atheists fool themselves into believing they’re better than Christians, because they base everything on “facts,” not “faith.”

          Did it ever occur to you that you have simply replaced the Christian faith in God with faith in yourself?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I have actually written several articles on morality in the Atheism 101 section of this website. You should check it out because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you might learn something.

            Yes, atheists base everything on facts not faith. You say that like it’s a bad thing. It isn’t.

          • no1cal

            Really? When you say “when I get up tomorrow, I’m going to the…”. Wow, aren’t we the pretentious one? I would say that was FAITH making a statement like that.

          • Michele

            LOL!! “Atheists fool themselves into believing they’re better than Christians”…”…you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you might learn something.”….Uh. Point proven. Thank you, proud atheist. That was cute. ;)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Better and more knowledgeable about a particular subject are two different things. Are you claiming that anyone who claims to know more about a particular subject thinks that they are “better people?” I guess you think all educators think they are better people than all of their students? That’s a very distorted view of education. It’s also a very sad view.

          • Michele

            Oh no, there are plenty of educators who are humble and do not put their nose in the air so to speak in making statements like, “You clearly have no idea what you are talking about”. Your assumption is that more knowledge is better than more faith. And really, that’s to be expected because you cannot understand everything that faith brings to the table without actually having it. There is a wisdom that far exceeds book knowledge. And along with that wisdom comes a humble attitude that does not need to insult other people’s intelligence. Is that wisdom always utilized on discussion boards like this? Uh. No. LOL But nobody’s perfect. I just thought it was cute how your immediate response was to, in slightly nicer wording, tell her she was a clueless idiot. It made me giggle. :)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I never said that!!!! You are making up stuff, putting it in my mouth, and then attacking me for saying it, when I didn’t say it. I never called anyone a “clueless idiot.” I did point out that a particular person was ignorant about the subject that he or she was talking about and then referred him or her to a place where they could educate themselves on the subject matter. BTW, that person called me a fool and accused all atheists of holding views that we don’t hold. Yet, you have not condemned that person for his or her statements at all. Instead, you accuse me of holding a view that I don’t hold. Like i said before, I don’t think education is a bad thing and I don’t think people who are more knowledgeable about a particular subject (regardless of what that subject is) are “better” people.

            I do however think that traits like knowledge, education, and wisdom are better than faith. I had faith once so I feel that I can speak on this subject from personal experience. It is always better to know! It is also always better to seek to know rather than to claim knowledge one does not have.

            You have been nothing but insulting and then you accuse me of being insulting when I have not been. I know you believe (on faith) that all atheists are horrible, evil, people and so I can forgive you for forcing that stereotype on me (since I am an atheist), but you should try to understand where I am coming from and have an actual conversation with me before turning me into the caricature you were told all atheists must be.

          • Michele

            LOL! Oh my gosh, wow. I can do that too. I never said that I believe all atheists are horrible, evil, people! Hello pot calling the kettle black. :P And I know you didn’t call her a clueless idiot. That’s why I said “in slightly kinder words”. Your exact words were “you clearly have no idea what you are talking about” = clueless. If you haven’t been insulting then neither have I. So there! (Can you tell I’m having fun with this?) hehe

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yeah, she said, “Atheism simply inserts the individual in the place of God. You decide on morality. You decide what God should or should not be. Atheists fool themselves into believing they’re better than Christians, because they base everything on “facts,” not “faith.” Did it ever occur to you that you have simply replaced the Christian faith in God with faith in yourself?” Which is not only completely wrong, but insulting to all atheists. She made a gross generalization about all atheists that few if any atheists actually hold. To which I said, “you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.” In other words, I was pointing out her ignorance about atheists followed by a reference she could go to learn more about what atheists actually believe. You interpreted that as me calling her a “clueless idiot?” That isn’t even remotely what I said. She was insulting and called all atheists fools and yet you are attacking me for exposing her ignorance about what positions atheists actually hold and directing her to a place to learn more?

            I see how this game is played. Christians can insult and personally attack atheists, but when atheists attempt to defend ourselves with facts and actual evidence, you cry that you are being persecuted and that all atheists are just big meanies.

            There is an old Buddhist story about a Christian who came to a Buddhist Monk to a religious dialog. The Christian started talking about Jesus and how we are all evil sinners and only through Jesus can one be saved. The Monk cut in and asked if the Christian wanted some tea. The Christian thanked him and said he would. So the Monk started pouring the tea into the cup and didn’t stop even when the cup was full. The tea started spilling all over the table and the Christian jumped up and yelled to stop pouring. The Monk explained that like the tea cup, the Christian must empty his cup before the Monk is able to fill it again.

            Moral of the story, don’t come to a dialog and present a monologue. Come with an open mind and try to understand where someone is coming from before you spout your point of view. Don’t bring your preconceived stereotypes with you.

          • Michele

            Ah yes, I see your point. She was telling you what SHE thinks you believe, as if it was fact. I stand corrected on that point. You however have accused me of attacking you and I have in no way attacked you. I simply giggled at what appeared to be you proving her point.

            Again, I never said you called her a clueless idiot, don’t misquote me. I also never cried persecution or called you a big meany. I reserve “Big Meany” for my husband. He’s a pain in the arse. ;)

            I know where you’re coming from. You’re not the first atheist I’ve spoken to. You have every right to believe as you believe. I just wish that people could stop with the condescending attitude. We are 2 intelligent people with our own thoughts and minds. You have faith in your thing, I have faith in mine. There were people on here, not sure if you were one of them or not, saying stuff like, “We’re just trying to educate you because we feel sorry for you!” I mean, seriously? It’s just laughable.

            Oh! And for the record, the whole reason I came to this page to begin with…I totally agree with you that the Bible Code thing is B.S.

          • Bryan

            And the Christian explained it’s OK, my cup overfloweth…

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            Um “Dangerous” if you would be kind enough to re-read what you wrote (ALL of it), you will find that YOU & YOUR OWN words won’t stand up to your own scrutiny.
            I agree that attacking one another leads to NOTHING. Which in actuallty gives to the two of you being equal in having short comings, due to the insults that were thrown at one another.
            I would however, like to hear how saying that, “an atheist believes in himself and not GOD” is insulting. And I’m truly not trying to be argumentative. I earnestly want to hear your point of view. Based on your statement of Atheism, it seems that my defenition of Atheism seems to be limited. With that being said please (earnestly) enlighten me.

          • Tim Tian

            Would someone care to explain what the mean by “an atheist believes in himself and not GOD”. I hear that phrase thrown around a lot but no one thought to clarify.

          • Yabetcha

            I once was agnostic because I saw my parents struggling with their marriage. I decided it was all ‘a crutch’ and threw the baby out with the bath water. Luckily, something came along which was so negative, it made me choose to seek the Opposite. That is how I found a real, living God who gives our lives purpose and has a very warm spirit. I love, love, love it when that warm, positive, gentle spirit comes into a room where Christians are praying.. It is very cool and not at all a hallucinaction or hysteria. Once when we prayed very hard for a long time about a friend’s son who is addicted to opiates, when we all finally stopped praying, the warm stayed around in the room for quite some time. One of the young adults with us opened her eyes after prayer time and said, “Where WERE we?” My feelings exactly! And the doors that literally flew open in that young addicts life were truly amazing. It was a definite warmth & positivity and heightened energy that lingered for a long time!
            May sound boring to some, but DEFINITELY more exciting than television for me! Love it!

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            Actually “Danderous” YOU were insulting. In the begining YOU said that YOU would ridicule those who believed in GOD. Here let me post the quote YOU wrote.
            “Weeeeee….look everyone – I’m an ATHEIST!! I don’t believe in anything and I’ll just be worm food after I die but before I go – I’ll ridicule everyone who has faith in God. Sure, I’m not helping anyone but it makes me feel better about my empty, unfulfilled life!”

            Now these ARE your words correct? I mean, this looks like words of self admission to me.
            Now whether you believe or not is YOUR CHOICE. I would however like to hear about your experience about your FAITH in GOD that didn’t meet up to your standards. I give respect to the FACT that you do have a story that we ALL could learn from. No judgement. I do think that alot can be learned from YOUR life experiences. Which would allow people the freedom to choose, and make their own decision, as to what they want to and don’t want to believe in.
            I will aslo say that the other party was insulting as well, which was not called for. Because if she is standing on the faith of believing in GOD then forgiveness is the first thing she was supposed to give, inspite of your insulting comments.
            I do not condone your comments but I don’t take it personal either.
            Once again let’s talk.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Ummm… NO those weren’t my words!!! You were quoting the Christian who was insulting me and claiming that I was saying them and… insulting myself? *facepalm*

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            For the record, my response to the Christian’s ridicule of me (that you quoted) was this:

            “Weeee… look at [email protected] – He’s the guy ridiculing people who he falsely claims ridicule others and is too cowardly to sign his name.

            As for me, I criticize ridiculous beliefs because many of those beliefs are dangerous! This Bible cure for cancer is a perfect example. People with cancer should see a doctor instead of trying to find some hidden medical cure in a 2000 year-old book written by sheep herders.”

          • Thayet

            Agreed, my grandmother was diagnosed with Cancer in 2008. It was a type of lymphoma that is usually easily treated with chemo and has a high success rate of remission when treated quickly. My grandmother, not a big fan of doctors and big pharma, tried several homeopathic clinics before trying chemo and by that point it was too late. Diagnosed in April and dead in October. I may not like the way that kids tend to be over-medicated for things like ADD and ADHD but cancer is not the same.

          • Tactical111

            I’m with Jesse Ventura on this topic. “Religion is for the WEAK MINDED.” I would add “intellectually lazy” as it far easier to believe what someone tells you than to do the research and find out the TRUTH for yourself.

          • anthony

            so your saying you figured out big bang/evolution/others for your self. are you sure no one told you these things in a book. pretty sure christian knowledge comes from a book also, it’s pretty hypocritical to say your knowledge from a book or the net is research, but someone elses knowledge from a book you don’t agree with is intellectual laziness, isn’t it? you can’t prove there is no God, and I can’t prove there is a God. yes athiest think they are better than everybody else, that is why they are constantly calling christians stupid! grow up all!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Oh, so you believe all books are equal. I get it. I guess you think Harry Potter is real too. After all, you can’t prove he isn’t real, right? Talk about hypocritical!

          • anthony

            I didn’t say that in the least! who’s making up things now! what I said, was that those books you read are no more absolute than the ones christians read. neither of them have been nor can be proven. stephen hawking even says: we don’t know how all of this came about, but there are several theories! why is it so terrible to let christians have one of those several, if we turn out to be wrong, it won’t hurt anything anymore than when one of the several scientific theories turn out to be incorrect. you and I both know they can’t all be right!
            somehow I don’t think you know what a hypocrite is! nothing I said in the other post was even remotely hypocritical.
            you however are telling others to expand their minds and think about what you are saying, while at the same time you are totally dismissing everything they say. yes, that is a bit hypocritical. and yes, christians are just the same.
            none of what I am saying is to make you look bad! but, your still gonna make out, like I’m an enemy of knowledge. this isn’t the case! I think in the case of atheist vs christian, one could learn from the other without criticizing the beliefs of the other. this however, never happens, because one is always to busy calling the other stupid! both christians and atheist need to grow up. we don’t have to be enemies.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            If you read through the comments section, you will see that I have been called stupid and personally attacked and even threatened and yet you will also notice that I have not once called anyone stupid (with one exception because he started it and I wanted to make a point) and have never personally attacked anyone.

            Now, I don’t want you to think that I am calling you stupid here, because I’m not, but I do want to know if you understand the difference between “a theory” and a scientific theory. It has been my experience that many Christians do not and this is a very important difference and I want to be sure that we are both on the same page here.

            When you claimed that all books were equally valid, I think you have missed quite a bit of that difference. If you don’t know the difference between a book written by a cosmologist about cosmology and an ancient story book series written by anonymous authors who obviously didn’t have the scientific knowledge we have today, then you have some learning to do. Not because you aren’t a smart person or anything like that. You very well might be. But because you are ignorant of some very important facts. That’s not a problem though, because you live in the information age and you can learn this stuff. Google is your friend. Find out why Stephen Hawkings book is valued and respected. Check out Lawrence Krauss’s book, “The Universe From Nothing” and learn why we know what we claim to know about the cosmos. More importantly, you will learn what we don’t know, but why we suspect based on the evidence we currently have. This is different from just making up answers to questions we don’t currently have answers for.

          • anthony

            Im not arguing against science, and I don’t think science its self is an argument against God. what I am saying is this; in the 1800′s the ice age was a huge debate among scientist. we now know the ice age was a factual event. and still, some christians, and some seculars refuse to believe it ever happened, but the bible backs up the theory in Job 37:10.
            some have problems with the big bang on both sides, but again the bible backs it up in Issiah 42:5
            on the flipside many atheist say that we christians believe that the earth is flat but Issiah 40:22 tells us that it is not. many say we believe in unicorns, but the word unicorn used in the bible is hebrew for wild bull.

            I agree with you on many of your arguments. just not the one that says there is no God. it is true that many so called Christians judge you and all athiest, but you can believe that if Im right, there won’t be much of an eternity for them, as their bible tells them:

            “judge not and you will not be judged, condemn not and you will not be condemned”

            it is the same on both sides of the fence, and there needs to be an end to it for sure. but, I don’t think I have enough faith, nor do you have enough science to put out that fire. so I guess me and you both will just have to deal with it.

            oh and please don’t think I dislike you just because we don’t totally agree on the way it all got started. I may be christian, but, I have athiest friends. they try to convert me, and I try to convert them. it’s good fun.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            There are also some scientists who claim that the sun goes around the Earth… and Joshua 10:12-13 backs that up. Oh wait, there are no scientists who accept that.

            There are some scientists who claim that the Earth is flat and Isaiah 11:12 and Revelation 7:1 (among other verses) backs that up. Oh wait, again no modern scientist accepts that. I can go on all day with this. The Bible is not a science book and there are about a million examples of scientific claims that the Bible got absolutely wrong.

            I also want to point out that you are using scientists as an authority when the real authority is the evidence. There are going to be people (even scientists) who believe somethings on poor reasoning but the real issue is whether or not the evidence supports the claims.

          • anthony

            I just want to point out that I was trying to be civil, and have a conversation.
            first of all I don’t care what scientist said what! I was using the evidence which was provided by scientist, and evidence found in the bible that concurs with science, to show other christians that it is not compromising their faith, in saying that the big bang could very well have happened.
            second the four corners, and the four winds refers to north, east, south, and west. you’ve heard that expression all your life and you know this is true. your grasping at straws.
            and God forbid someone who was alive 5000 years ago ask God to make the day a bit longer. this sun stand still was what joshua asked God, was it a mistake on Joshua’s part? yes, But pluto was a planet until a few years ago. I wonder if the bible caused that one. nope!!! your science book called it a planet too. hmmm!
            well like I said, I was trying to have a civil conversation with you. but your only interested in arguing, so have fun with that.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I’m being civil too and my point is that your examples are also grasping at straws. The Bible does not back up any scientific claims at all. When you claim that it backs up the Big Bang or the Ice Age, you are grasping at straws and someone could just as easily point out wrong scientific theories that the Bible “backs up.” The Bible is not a science book; it is a book of myths. It was not written or divinely inspired by an infallible deity; it was written by bronze-aged sheep herders.

          • Mitch

            OK just one question: what was here before the ‘big bang’?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
          • Tim Tian

            What do you mean “before” the big bang?

          • mtnfraggle

            Learning science can be difficult. Learning “God did it” takes no effort or evidence whatsoever.

          • Tim Tian

            For the record, burden of proof is on the proponent, not the sceptic.

          • al707

            well what is the truth that God doesn’t exist? I bet you have not done any research either.

          • Tim Tian

            Again FTR, the burden of proof is on the proponent, not the sceptic

          • Tiddly Winks

            Hmm, I thought it was Lenin or Marx that said religion was the opium of the masses.

            Yes, Jesse got to be governor, somehow, of Minnesota, but for advice of anything more serious than wrestling, I’d rather not lay much store in.

            Regarding the ‘book’ or books mentioned earlier, many folks grasp at anything that will give them hope, whether its value is proven or not. I remember a number of years ago folks going to Mexico for some particular treatment not available in the USA, supposedly as an alternative way to fight cancer.

            I do know of clinical trials at the University of Pennsylvania that have had remarkable success.

            I daresay that in a few more years, our children or their children will think of us a Barbarians with how we fight cancer now, much like we think of how people 100 years ago treated the mentally challenged.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I agree with you that the way we fight cancer now sucks and hundreds of years from now this will look pretty barbaric, but for right now, it is all we have. One thing is for certain though, Chemo will look barbaric because science will find a much better way to treat cancer. It won’t be because prayers started to work all of a sudden. The faster religion stops blocking scientific funding and progress the faster we will have better cures for diseases like cancer.

          • al707

            prayer works, when my middle child was born with a hole in her heart the size of a dime and all the doctors told us she could not and would not live, Even though I was raised as a christian, I was not a good christian, I never practiced my religion or went to church but somewhere I remembered that Jesus said “ask and I will give it to you, or something like that. When we got home from the hospital, I went straight to my room got down on both knees and asked Jesus for her life. Within 3 months the hole in her heart closed half way her doctor Dr Saul Robinson every time he saw her told us it was a miracle that happened to her, every single time he told us that. She is 46 years old today and the hole in her heart is closed completely. Since then I have had many prayers answered.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            *Facepalm* So what about all the people who prayed that their child, family member, or friend would survive and they died? Did God just not love them? How do you know it was your prayer that healed your daughter? Maybe it was the jelly donuts you ate that morning?

            Doctors are awesome at what they do, but the human body does heal itself and doctors can’t always predict how someone’s body will react. If your doctor told you that your child was definitely going to die, then you had a shitty doctor. Doctors shouldn’t say that. They should say that your child probably will not survive.

            I had a friend growing up who had a rare illness. The doctors told his parents when he was born that he probably would not survive past 6 months. When he was older, he went into a coma and the doctors said that he probably wouldn’t come out of it. Over the course of his life he went through several of those comas and each time the doctors didn’t think he would survive. He died at the age of 38. That was a much longer life than he was expected to live, but it was no miracle. He had great doctors and a strong immune system. He was lucky and had a great attitude toward life. Even though we fought a lot about pretty much everything (surprisingly not religion), I miss him and think of him a lot. But don’t tell me that God wanted him to die and don’t tell me that it was a miracle that he lived as long as he did. Why didn’t he live longer? Life is what it is. No rain dance will make it rain.

          • Yabetcha

            On the contrary, it is very exciting, very stimulating intellectual journeying, with, in my case, a somewhat high amount of testing the data I have gleaned from scripture. So, you learn to pray to seek the Intelligence that is higher than your own, and frankly, uncorrupted. Then you journal the ‘prayer requests’ that you pray, knowing the character of ‘The One True God’ as evidenced in the Bible, including the Greek Bible, Josephus’ ancient history, and archeological finds. Then, so your answers aren’t just accepted as a part of ongoing life, you go back and revisit your journaled prayers and read the date, writing the date of the answer next to the dated entry.

            Try praying with a young child, in an attitude of thankfulness for what you have received as well as your current request. Children of believers often have a very strong faith because when they are young, they have not been immersed fully in analytical thinking. When my son was young, he and I prayed together.

            I hate to say it, but it is true, that I wasn’t just ‘playing the system’ when I prayed with this child, because there IS a special presence when two or more believers pray together. We had some answers to prayer that were nothing short of amazing…one in particular, where the very next day the very words I had said came out of someone’s mouth at my job, offering me a position with the specifics my son and I had prayed for! (I had intended to leave the building immediately after work to apply elsewhere, but there was no need! The person came walking up with what I needed, a definite surprise. Children don’t doubt. They just accept truths and run with it. That is why in my son’s life I answered every question, even personal questions, truthfully, except one. I told him about ‘the Easter bunny’, ‘Santa’, the tooth fairy, and that my VW rabbit backfired so much because every time it backfired, a little jackrabbit shot out the tailpipe. Other than that, I was straightforward with my very intelligent little guy.

            He grew up praying about things and having prayers answered. It was just natural for him.

            Possible answers are 3– (1.) Yes (2) No (3) Wait. But the ‘Yes’ answers were often so full of specifics that we had prayed for, that it was truly encouraging, and FUN!

            Some people discover diamonds in streams, some discover new planets, some discover the patterns and experiences that cause a person think in a bizarre manner, others work to discover the cause of a disease, or a means to cure the disease.

            I personally enjoy exploring the spiritual. If there is a precedent in the Bible, I want to see how it works in my life. ISTJ personalities love to naturally analyze and sense and judge their environments. But more FUN to me than any other kind of exploration is to see how the spiritual works. Eg. how prophecy from the Bible can be filled on 2 or even 3 levels, all at the same time! How some principles always work in human connection. How eg. an attitude or approach of arrogance toward what I call ‘The Almighty’ but you might call ‘The great I Am’ or Yahwh or Yah, keeps communication from happening. So many keys, so much to explore, and much of it useful and translatable to daily life. Practical.

            But exciting elements too.

            I had a very intuitive father who taught me deep and analytical things of the Bible, concepts that many had not heard of. So you can imagine my chagrin when I excitedly told that mathematics and science teacher one of my son’s and my exciting and rather amazing answers to prayer. His response? ‘You can’t prove that!’

            I am not a liar, so I had to think, after he responded that way twice (and I never told him about our answers to prayer again.) I am musical, I have had things published, my mind works differently from how my father’s did.

            So God dealt with me in a way that worked with my mind and my son’s. My father, being a math and science teacher, and having very low self confidence and feeling, I believe, more afraid of the absolute power of God than trusting and believing in him as Jesus called him, ‘Abba Father’ which means Daddy. I understood that the Creator may well deal with different minds in different ways, and teach different minds in different ways.

            Just as a friend who 40 years ago was an extreme alcoholic, lost all his desire to drink when he surrendered to the Son of God as his Lord and Savior, but did not judge those who had to struggle for years to quit, I too, see that each individual’s mind and way to relate is different. So, just as I realized my father’s diligence in deep study into the original Greek and his interest in eschatology and study of future things appealed to his analytical mind, my mind required love and a touch of the miraculous. By the way, my father’s studies have stood me in good stead, as I am not ‘happy’ about, but definitely not ‘surprised at’ the events unfolding in the nations of the world today. This includes Russia flexing its muscles and orchestrating land grabs.

          • mtnfraggle

            Rodd, your quote was not Dangerous, but another Christian going by the username “Me” trying to mock atheists and the author.

          • al707

            I’m pretty sure those were the words of Me not Dangerous Talk unless Me and he are the same.

          • Thayet

            Actually the mod didn’t say that, it was a person with the name “Me.” Don’t forget to double check things like that before you start criticizing people.

          • Praise God

            Dangerous Talk say’s he did have faith once. And then God didn’t come down from the Heavens in a clap of lighting and appear to him….solve all his problems, cure all his disease, move the mountains for him, drive demons out of people right in front of him…..immediately because “HE CAN”. So, he got angry and decided he would try to convert as many people as he can to be atheists…..boy, look at all the people just on this site that find his unconvincing skills, rude, condescending, insulting etc. There is a right way and wrong way to debate with people. He has no idea whats so ever on how to do this…..The bottom line here is. He laughs at us Christians when he makes us mad, belittles us that Christians are suppose to be loving and Christlike. What dangerous Talk doesn’t understand and never will is…..when he attacks and belittles our GOD…..we will fight for Him. If that means getting a little nasty…..oh well. As long as it’s not threatening….we will fight like hell for Him. Dangerous Talks debating techniques are anything but convincing. They are only anger, belittle and insult who we are as people and believers. I think actually there is probably many atheists that are very classy debaters that would read his posts and inform him that how he is going about trying to inform people of his research etc. is never going to convince people of anything. Just anger them and put more of a “bad label” for all atheists. Find these atheists Dangerous Talk and try and get some pointers from them. I’m sure their out there…..and would probably love to help you find a way to get your message across in a respectable way that people would want to at least listen to and have possible debates with you that could end with people just agreeing to disagree. And you know what? That’s ok when a debate ends that way……it really is.

          • Quicksand man

            Yeah, Michelle… You might want to expand your mind and actually use reason and logic in your life. You might actually learn something if you research things using sources that are based on evidence rather than a book of fairy tales.

          • Travis D.

            I agree with your statement. Christians don’t think they are Better then Atheists because Atheists are Ignorance of God.
            Christians are just more knowledgeable about Spiritual and Moral subjects.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow! So you are saying that slavery, rape, and genocide are moral? Because that is what the Bible says and if you get your superior moral knowledge from the Bible, that must be what you believe, right? Which one of God’s top ten rules forbids slavery or rape? None. Which one outlaws working on Saturday? Worshiping a different deity? Talk about priorities.

          • Bryan

            So until a fact is disproven, an atheist has faith the facts are correct : )

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            If it is a fact, then it has already been proven correct. If it is a really solid scientific theory, then I accept it until new evidence comes to light showing that it is incorrect. I don’t accept it on faith, I accept it on the solid scientific evidence which has made it a theory. But I am glad that we can both agree that faith is a very bad thing. So we are making progress.

          • al707

            Now why is faith a bad thing. Don’t you have faith in your family? How about when you go to work everyday, don’t you have faith your car will run. Don’t you have faith that God isn’t real? Faith is a very big part of life.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I have trust in my family and a reasonable expectation that my car will run because science works.

          • al707

            tell us the facts you have that God does not exist. You have no facts, it’s only faith you have that God does not exist.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Tell me the facts you have that the Easter Bunny does not exist. You have no facts, it’s only faith you have that the Easter Bunny does not exist. Therefore you must believe the Easter Bunny is real. You see, you can do that with anything. That is why in logic, the burden of proof is on the one asserting the positive claim. I don’t have to believe anything on insufficient evidence. Present the evidence or admit that there is no basis for your claim.

          • al707

            same goes for you present your evidence or admit there is no basis for your claim. I get it you believe the earth was created by the Big Bang and you believe that created all the order in the world today. Here is a good way to test that theory, go out and throw a few grenades in your back yard and blow them all up and just see how much order it creates. Even Albert Einstein who atheist love to claim as an atheist said the more he studied the Cosmos the more he believed a supreme being created it all. He also said “science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind”

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Actually, just last week evidence was found that supports the Big Bang Theory even more. But if you want a science lesson about the Big Bang and the evidence we have for it prior to the most recent discovery, you should watch Lawrence Kruass talk about the Universe From Nothing on YouTube. I think there is an hour version of the talk out there or you can watch the full two hour version.

            Einstein was a naturalist who did not believe in a personified deity. He believed in what has been called “Spinoza’s God” which is to say he doesn’t really believe in any supernatural deity at all. Christians love to take quotes that Einstein said early in his live and then make a claim that he held dogmatically to those beliefs all his life. The fact is that as a scientist, Einstein was extremely critical of religion and the religious were extremely hateful of him. But he grew up Jewish and there is a strong cultural connection for Jews. So he probably considered himself Jewish for much of his life even though he rejected the supernatural beliefs of that religion.

            Still, even if he did believe in a deity (which he didn’t), that wouldn’t make such a deity real. Smart people can and do believe in ridiculous claims on insufficient reasons all the time. The fact is that there is a great deal of evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory and zero in support of a supernatural deity. BTW, even the Pope accepts that the Big Bang actually happened. So I can play the same game you are trying to play. However, his opinion doesn’t mean anything unless the evidence actually supports it and in this case the overwhelming evidence supports the Big Bang.

          • Scott

            I believe the best scientific evidence points to the Big Bang Theory. And, I have faith that God caused it.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Do you have any evidence that your god or any other deity caused it? Maybe Oden caused it or perhaps it was the FSM. Right now, the evidence suggests that it probably had no cause in our universe. But I’m happy to say that I don’t know what “caused” it, if anything did cause it. I feel comfortable admitting that we don’t have all the answers rather than just making up an answer and holding to that answer on faith.

          • al707

            Einstein didn’t say that early in his life he said it later in his life, he said the more he studied the Cosmos the more he believed a supreme being created it all. Yes I know Einstein was raised a Jew. And I am not saying the Big Bang is not real but it is only a theory No one knows how the world started, they are all just theories. I will say it again, look at all the order in the world, do you really believe that all just happened by accident? Just study the body alone, how the body works. Use your common sense, Common sense will tell you NO that didn’t happen by accident.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I don’t think the word “Theory” means what you think it means. The Big Bang is a theory and it is also a fact. We have very strong evidence that it happened and just last month that evidence got ridiculously strong when we discovered graviton waves from less than a second after the Big Bang.

            As for Einstein, I would try Googling that. Let me help you out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein

          • Tim Tian

            And now he reveals himself to not actually know anything about the big bang theory.

          • Tim Tian

            Again FTR, Burden of proof on Proponent, NOT Sceptic.

          • Specilum

            Atheist Morality is 100% subjective. It is no different from me saying Strawberry is the best flavor of Icecream and you saying Vanilla is the best… WHO IS RIGHT??? WHO IS WRONG??? which flavor is actually the best? You cant say what I am supposed to like best, and I cant say what you are supposed to like best…. so what about murder or rape or stealing? what if that is ok for me but not for you? why is what I believe wrong? If you dont have a God that created the universe and says what is right and wrong, then you can NEVER judge anyone ever again… throw out the courts… and just do what you want…

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            *facepalm*

            You might want to actually Google that for five seconds.

            Let me save you the trouble:

            Atheism 101: Is there moral grounding without God? – http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-is-there-moral-grounding-without-god

          • Specilum

            1st off – your facepalm comment is funny… keep hitting yourself, it might knock the foolish thinking out.
            2nd – I read your article and it is a joke. I stand by my statement, if you are just a blob of cells that evolved by random chance then you have no ground to stand on and say this is moral and this is not moral… everything is subjective.(and your life has no meaning in the end, so just go and do whatever you want and have fun, cause after its done, there is nothing else, give the worms some food)
            3rd – I can see that you are a militant atheist by your other posts here so unless you show some signs that you will humble yourself and say you are wrong and actually still teachable, I will most likely leave this conversation and spend my time elsewhere with someone who is actually humble and looking for the truth.
            4th – there is evidence everywhere of the existance of God, but you just look at it in a different light… and interpret it differently. You put your faith in science and believe that a singularity created you… I put my faith in God and believe He created me… neither of us were around to see the creation of the universe and the 1st life forms come alive, so we have to believe it happened a certain way. If you can admit that your belief is religious and based on faith just like mine, then I believe we might have a good start and can have a conversation like 2 grown adults.
            Thanks,
            Jonathan

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            1. You Christians often complain that atheists call them stupid. You’re not helping. ;-)
            2. You are standing by a refuted statement? At least you’re not dogmatic or anything, lol.
            3. Not only do I not own a gun, I generally am against violence. So I really don’t see how I could be a militant atheist. You on the other hand support the eternal torture of pretty much anyone who don’t believe in your deity of choice. That’s a little bit militant.
            3.5 Then you want to talk about being humble? I have admitted multiple times that I am open to changing my position on anything. All it takes is for someone to present some valid evidence and I’ll change my position. I have changed it before and I am willing to change it again. You on the other hand hold absolute certainty in your beliefs. And what are those beliefs? You believe that God created you special and that he created this entire universe just for us. How egocentric is that?
            4. No, there are naked assertions everywhere for the existence of God, but no actual testable evidence. As for the Big Bang, there is actually a lot of evidence supporting it. Just a few weeks ago, we discovered gravitational waves that allow us to see less than a second after the Big Bang. You claim that neither of us were there, but the fact is that isn’t really true. We have an awesome time machine that allows us to see back less than a second after the Big Bang. I’m sure I don’t have to explain the speed of light to you since you are no doubt a smart person, but when you look up at the sun, you are actually seeing it has it looked 8 minutes ago. Space is the ultimate time machine. It takes 8 minutes for the light from the sun to reach our eyes. So yes, thanks to gravity waves we can now see less than a second after the big bang. No faith required.

          • Travis D.

            Your assertion is in fact a faith statement. You do not know your statement to be True.
            You have faith that it is true.
            But the vast majority of the “Facts” Atheists believe in, is based on faith that they are indeed Facts.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            There’s an Atheism 101 article for that.

        • Gods Son Lives

          let’s say you are correct and hail is imaginary. You have lived your life by your own rules with nobody to answer to.some day you die and are buried never to live again. Now let’s say that you are still correct and I have lived a Christian life. I have live by rules in the Bible that tell me to love everyone and a treat everyone with respect and be an all around good person. I die leaving a good memory behind and then buried never to be alive again. Now let’s say that I am correct believing in Christ and in Hell. If you live in a more alive do I need you please with no one to answer to you die and going to a devil sale where the worm will never die and you are in torment forever. As a Christian I have accepted crafts ways of life and believe and following him. When I die I know where I will be in heaven with the rest of Christ followers no more pain no more worries no more tears. Right a wrong the teachings of Christ has made me a better person.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, a strawman and Pascal’s Wager in a single comment. Impressive. Let me try. Let’s say you are correct and I live my life according to secular humanism. I treat everyone around me with compassion and dignity and strive to make the world a better place… but when I die, your deity has judged that because I didn’t believe in existed on insufficient evidence, I should be tortured for all eternity.
            On the other hand, you lived a life according to the Bible in which you stoned adulterers, gays, blasphemers, and non-believers and then sold your daughters into slavery. God has granted you eternity in Heaven.

            I think I would rather burn in Hell for all eternity as a good and compassionate person than live eternity in Heaven as a slave to an immoral deity.

          • brett

            Bazinga!

          • Roy Watts

            Well, that is the most asinine comment I have ever heard. I seriously don’t understand your thought pattern.

          • Chuck Bump

            When the adulterous woman was about to be stoned to death, Christ intervened and said: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” If you remember what you said, D.T. when you’re in Hell, you’ll be kicking yourself. I believe Hell is a lot worse than you or I can imagine. Besides, you don’t work your way into Heaven, it is a gift freely given to those who truly believe. The “good works” come from gratitude to Christ for ones salvation. I just wanted you to have the Gospel presented to you in an accurate way, that way when you reject it, you will do so having been offered the truth. Until your last breath, there’s always a chance, but God won’t force himself on you.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I have had many conversations with people of various religions and various different types of Christians. I have read the Bible cover-to-cover at least twice and used to regularly attend Christian meetings and Bible study. It is safe to say that I have been presented with the Gospel.

            Second, that story about the adulterous woman was added to the Gospel hundreds of years later. It was edited it later. Any reputable Bible Scholar will affirm that. That is seminary stuff.

            Threats of eternal torture don’t make me more likely to believe, they make me less likely to believe. Even if you could present valid evidence that your deity were true, such a threat makes me less likely to worship him and it should make you less likely to worship him too. Torturing people is wrong. It is wrong to torture people for five minutes and it is wrong to torture people for all eternity. Any all-powerful deity who allows it is not an all-powerful deity worth the worship. Think about it.

          • Chuck Bump

            Seminary stuff? Apparently the Seminary trained pastors I’ve had with doctorate degrees must have missed that class. I too have read the Bible through, but considerably more times than twice. Your feeling of not wanting to worship what you see as a vindictive god is your feelings. I’ve no desire to argue about that, just your statement about story of the woman caught in adultery. This is your page which I didn’t realize at first, so I’ll drop my discussion with you. Have a nice life, D.T.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yes, Seminary stuff. “Two of the most important interpolations are the last verses of the Gospel of Mark[98][99][100] and the story of the adulterous woman in the Gospel of John.[101][102][103]” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Gospels#John

            Second, I have read parts of the Bible multiple times. I said that I have read it cover-to-cover at least twice. Most people don’t read the Bible cover-to-cover. I would be very much surprised if you did. It really is a boring book and it is pretty hard to get through cover-to-cover. Most people just skip around and read the parts their religious leaders tell them to read.

            Again, torture is immoral. It is immoral for 5 minutes and it is immoral for all eternity. Do you really “feel” that torture is morally good? Is that what your sense of morality tells you? Would you torture someone? Would you torture little children and babies? Would you worship someone who does?

          • Chuck Bump

            Yes I have read the Bible “cover to cover ” The Old Testament three times and the New Testament about 15 times. There are no such verses as 101.102,103 , Mark has 16 chapters an the 16th chapter has 20 verses. Likewise with the Gospel of John. You don’t help your case with that kind of reference. If you think the Bible is boring, you should read the Koran. I havei only to understand somewhat the way Muslims behave. I don’t have a clue which verse you’re referring to , since you must have pulled them out of another source than the Bible. At any rate if you’re pointing out discrepancies in those two gospels, it is because they were observations by two different people. Just like different witnesses to an event will have somewhat different observations. I don’t mind you having the last word but arguing the Bible with me is just a waste of your time and mine. You don’t believe and I do. You cannot prove that God doesn’t exist, just as I cannot prove He does. Why is it so important to you to belittle others who do believe. Other atheists I know don’t have to justify their beliefs by cutting down believers.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            *double facepalm* The references were from the Wiki article I sourced with a link. Check out the link and then check out the wiki sources. Wiki is just general information and the sources are what is important. My point here is that the chapters in John dealing with that parable are well known to have been added much later. Like I said before this is seminary stuff.

            You are admitting that you are a closed-minded person. I don’t actually believe you are as closed-minded as you are claiming to be. I think you, like everyone else, are open to the evidence if you are exposed to it. I am trying to get you to question what you have been told. You have to do the work though. I can only point you in the right direction. If you have any kind of curiosity, you will start looking into these things. Chuck, you have been lied to and swindled and I am trying to help you. Don’t take my word for anything. Research this stuff on your own.

            I don’t have to prove God doesn’t exist. I just have to point out that the Bible is not a valid source and that it has been edited by people with differing agendas over a period of time for various political reasons. Christianity is a scam and it has stolen much of your one and only life away from you.

            Finally, I have never belittled anyone no matter what religion they are. I take issue with your claim. I criticize ridicule religious beliefs, but never ever, do I belittle religious believers. On the other hand, Christians often wage personal attacks against me. I consider your accusation that I belittle people as just that. So I have to call you out in this. Please provide an example of me belittling people. I have written hundreds of articles and blogs and I bet you cannot find a single example of where I have done anything like that. I take great offense to being accused in this way.

          • Chuck Bump

            D.T., you’ve been listening to yourself so long that you can’t hear what you’re saying. Example of belittling others? Just about any of your comments above and below this one would qualify. I read your references in Wikipedia, so as to address it. The term used in one sentence relating the story to interpolations of other parts. Pretty weak. I didn’t approach Christianity or the Bible from a desire for knowledge in my younger years, being skeptical. Events happened that piqued my interest(I call them miracles, but I’m sure you have another word for it) I first became a theist about 25 years ago and 20 years ago I accepted the Lord as my personal Savior.
            You sound sincere about my wasting my time and if you are, thank you. Using your logic, I claim that Wikipedia is not a reliable source since they are in the business of revisionism. What say we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            So let me get this straight. You insult me by insinuating that I just like to listen to myself and then accuse me of belittling others. I ask you for a specific example in which I belittled a single person and all you can say, is “everything.” Be specific. Give me one example because I really don’t think you can find a single example of me belittling anyone. While I admit that I am critical of beliefs and often belittle ridiculous beliefs; mocking beliefs is very different from mocking people (which is what you have accused me of). If seems to me that Christians have no problem mocking people and then are quick to falsely accuse others of doing just that.

            Wikipedia is a good general knowledge source, but is not a good source in and of itself. It cites other sources most of which are generally reliable. That particular part that I referenced had many sources and I have also heard similar things from seminary students and professors. The part that I referenced had a good overview of the claim plus sources which is why I cited it. I claimed that this is seminary stuff and that is exactly what it was. As I said before, seminary Christian scholars do not think that the parable was part of the original text. It was probably added hundreds of years later. You can’t dispute this with facts, so you attempt to go after the source and to personally attack me for citing it. Sorry, but that isn’t how academic discourse is done. If you have evidence, present it. I advise you to do your own research here. Don’t take my word for it. Look into it on your own. Google is your friend. E-mail Yale seminary professors and professors at other seminaries. We live in a time where you can really learn this stuff on your own if you really want to find the truth. But you don’t really want the truth, do you? You just want to spout out a bunch of nonsense and then attack people for calling you out on it. That’s a shame.

          • Chuck Bump

            I wasn’t insulting you, I was correcting
            you. Like I’ve said twice before let’s agree to disagree. Follow this up with some more of your wisdom, but I’m done. Like I said before, have a nice life and if you’d like to tell yourself you won an argument with, be my guest.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I would be happy to let it go when you admit that you lied when you claimed that I belittled people when I did not. That shit isn’t going to fly with me. You can’t just make an accusation against someone without evidence and then turn around and run away.

            I will defend my reputation against your false accusations and I do expect an apology from you for making false accusations.

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            I can call you a LIAR, because you TRIED to belittle me by referring to me as being dumb!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You treated me as being dumb first, so I take the “in kind” exception. If someone insults me, I may or may not insult back. But I don’t start insulting people. I don’t call people stupid or dumb. I don’t treat people as being stupid or dumb… unless insulted in that way first. Even then, I usually don’t do it. But you pulled it out of me. If you don’t want to be insulted, then treat people with respect, don’t belittle them or yell at them.

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            Let me get this straight I was (at least that was my thought) showing you what I thought were your words, and was corrected & thusly apologized for my error. And because I was bringing to the for front what I thought you said, so that YOU wouldn’t make an error in your quoting that you took it as an INSULT? I’m sorry sir but at that point I didn’t know you well enough to insult you. But I do now!
            Not a problem. I see how this works. YOU are an idividual of little self restraint as am I. Like YOU I’m liable to tell you to kiss my A.. and not think twice about it. Because YOUR opinion about me won’t affect me in the least. YOU or NOTHING YOU DO has any significance in my life, none zilch nada! If I don’t ever speak, type or piss on your name again in life, it won’t affect Jack-Shit in my life. Just like I don’t matter to you,YOU have NO SIGNIFICANCE TO ME!!!
            Oh and have a nice day :-) See how easy that was!

          • Inexorable Dream

            First off I really feel sorry for you reading the Bible cover to cover. That is not how it should be read, nor was it written cover to cover. There was not 1 author for the entire book but over 60 authors and over the course of centuries, not days, weeks, months or years.
            It interests me that you assume that there is no proof of God’s existence. Do you believe in the boogyman? Me either, it/he is obviously a fictitious character. However, science knew NOTHING about oxygen, CO2, Nitrogen, etc. inside of the air we all breathe each day at one point. Heck, if I were alive back then, like 2000 years ago, and I said that the air was made up of thousands of different microscopic vapors I would be stoned at the spot! Science is the only subject in any form of education that accepts an answer for being correct 100% of the time when in truth it is only right the vast majority of the time.
            One day, I was driving down some very small back roads almost a year ago easily going 70-80 in the middle of a rain storm in which I remember the weather forecasters announced we had gotten 3-4 inches depending on the county. I knew the road I was on had flooded spots but I did not care. I was at one of the lowest spots I have ever been at on that day. I stopped my car at a stop sign and screamed. I demanded God show His “Lazy ass face and let me know He was there. I know You are there, I need you here. I cannot do this alone God. I need You.”
            The rain stopped almost immediately and the clouds parted right outside of my drivers side window. I sat there at that spot for 10-15 minutes amazed by what I was seeing. I thanked God for listening to me and I just smiled. I apologized to Him for the weakness in my faith and swore to never let it go again. I turned back to the road in front of me and the rain picked back up immediately. The sky again was dark grey all around and it was like that moment never happened.
            For all of the atheists on here thinking that I was under a tree, HA. It was on Co. Rd. U. and 10. (Henry County Ohio) Go check it out for yourself. The only thing at that crossing aside from the stopsign is a telephone pole or two and the wires. The closest tree is in the house back from the corner about 200 feet, the tree being maybe 20 feet in front of that.
            If you do not believe in something, you will not see it. I can be a doctor and tell you that you have cancer and at first you will tell me I am crazy, stupid, whatever. You do not want to see God because that would mean that some things are out of your control, out of ANYTHING’s control but His.

          • Rational Muslim

            Is torture always immoral? If you have a terrorist who can give you the location of a nuclear bomb that is set to go off in an hour, would you stop to think about not torturing them?

            More to the point, the issue of torture by God is part and parcel of our conception of Him in anthropomorphological terms and a belief that we are somehow the creator’s equal. Similarly, our conception of morality is grounded in our own man-centered beliefs. I will give you a clear example. We rightly describe the experiments that the Nazis and Japanese did on their captives as torture even if they had a byproduct from that research that might end up assisting others. If I were to go around deliberately infecting individuals with ebola or cancer to test a vaccine you would rightly declare it to be torture. Yet we routinely do such things to lab mice despite the fact (or more accurately because of the fact) that lab mice differ in genome by only 2.5% from humans. Surely we are closer in this regard to mice than we are to God, so who are we to judge the judge of all our activity?

            Except for those who take the ascetic position of the most strident of Buddhists, we are all hypocritical on this point.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            When it comes to gathering information, it has been routinely shown that torture doesn’t work. The information torture yields is almost always inaccurate. It looks great in the movies and on television, but in the real world, torture just doesn’t work.

            When it comes to scientific knowledge, your analogy suggests that God doesn’t know how the universe works and therefore needs to torture humans in Hell in order to learn some fact about reality that he doesn’t know. I thought God was supposed to be all-knowing. So this analogy doesn’t really hold in this case. So the question remains, is torturing people for all eternity for the finite transgression of not believing something on insufficient evidence moral?

          • Rational Muslim

            You are not responding correctly to the points made.

            1) I am pointing out that there may be reasons why torture is acceptable. Just because it does not work routinely does not mean that we would universally condemn it. In the case cited, if there was a nuclear bomb in your city set to go off in an hour, I think that you would employ torture regardless if the chance of success were miniscule or not. The point is that things are rarely absolute.

            2) The second point is that the notion of torture is based on our anthropomorphological beliefs in God. We simply do not know what happens after we die and scriptural evidence suggests that what is “torture” is simply eternal separation from God or a mechanism by which you simply no longer exist (which people who believe in God think is true), not torture in the sense that we think of it. Torture is, in fact, is basically a device to “scare the believer straight.” If you do not believe in God, you have nothing to fear from it. If you believe, it would be torture, not unlike having your parents not allow you to visit even though you now have great contrition for past wrongs.

            3) The final point, related to the second, is that your notion that there is no God is fine with you. You have made peace with that. I have made peace with the notion that God will judge me and I am absolutely okay with anything that the creator decides. It is not for me to judge what the creator will do. If I am eternally separated from Him, that WOULD be torture from my perspective as surely as anything else is. Therefore, from my personal perspective, if you were to disprove God (which you cannot because whether God exists is purely opinion anyway), you would be the most evil, reprehensible, and callous individual on the planet. You see, in order for there to be justice from the victim’s perspective, if I were the victim of a holocaust such that the Nazis perpetrated, I would ABSOLUTELY need to believe that those who perpetrated crimes against humanity ARE tortured eternally. I am sorry but without Hitler dying a billion deaths there is no justice. If good does not ultimately triumph over evil, there is no justice. If right is not always superior to wrong, there is no justice. Without a final independent arbitrator of whatever you want to call it (God, karma, etc.), the world ceases to have meaning and there is no reason not to behave in a callous manner towards others. This is why we have laws, of course, but if the lawgivers are corrupt, how can we guaranteel the lawgivers answer for their crimes?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            1. No, studies have shown that torture does not work. It is not effective. It does not provide reliable intel. If someone planted a nuke in the city set to explode in an hour, you don’t torture them; you bribe them.

            2. As it is with all things, it is the thought that counts. I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell, but when someone threatens me with Hell, they are telling me that I deserve to be tortured for all eternity. That isn’t a very nice thing to say even if I don’t believe it is true. It’s the thought that counts.

            2.5 The Bible is pretty clear that Hell is not a good place. Jesus said that it is better to pluck out your eye and cut off your hand rather than spend eternity in Hell.

            3. According to Christianity, because Hitler was a Christian and the Jews weren’t, Hitler will spend all eternity in Heaven (his sins forgiven through the blood of Christ) while the Jews he threw in the ovens will burn for all eternity in Hell because they did not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. That’s justice?

            No, there is no universal justice. We do good things because they are good in and of themselves. Acting morally has positive results. It makes us happier and it helps others too. Religion has skewed your view of morality, my friend. Punishment is not justice. We don’t punish forces of nature, but simply protect people from them. The job of prison is ideally to 1. protect people from those who act immorally and 2. reform those who act immorally so that they can change and act morally.

          • Rational Muslim

            1. You are wrong. Although torture is inconsistent in its ability to provide reasonable intel, it has also worked at times (see, for example, the Daschner case, although I believe torture was not justified in that case) and there is a compelling morale rationale in the limited case of the so-called “ticking time bomb” scenario (which I believe to be most certainly justified). See the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on torture: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/torture/

            As to your idea of bribing the terrorist, I find that laughable. You don’t reward terrorism since all it will do is encourage more terrorism.

            Furthermore, the only type of “bribe” that a terrorist would accept would be something that would end up resulting in even more deaths than the nuclear device. Remember, I used the case of a terrorist, as opposed to someone who is in it for the money.

            In addition, what is not normally discussed is that the single biggest reason for torturing in a “ticking time bomb” situation has less to do with finding actionable intel (though it is really the only way you can get such intel under such circumstances) and much more to do with being a deterrent to future terrorist actions.

            2. You are again wrong in your assumption. Neither I nor anyone else can “threaten” you with hellfire. Indeed, it would presumptuous of me to make such a claim. As I have pointed out, I am an agnostic theist when it comes to God, therefore, from my perspective, my issue is with anyone who claims knowledge of the hereafter, whether they be a believer or an atheist. However, your atheism is not a threat to me nor is a Christian’s belief that I am going to be damned in hellfire. If God does not exist, there is no way I am going to hell. Indeed, if hell does not exist (even if God exists), I am not going to hell. If hell does exist, however, I don’t want to go there. The only way that you can view something as a threat is if you believe it to be credible. I view the threat of hell as a credible threat and therefore take actions to avoid it. If you do not view hell as a credible threat, it is not a threat to you.

            3. Please note. I am not a Christian. Therefore point 3 is non-responsive. If there is a Hell of the fire and brimstone/endless torture variety (and I believe that there is, though I think that very few people actually go there — the vast majority will either be zapped into nonexistence or be received in heaven eventually), Hitler is going to Hell. No two ways about it. That isn’t a threat for Hitler because he apparently didn’t believe he was going but I take comfort in the belief that he is burning for all eternity. As for you I see no reason to see why you should go to Hell and don’t believe that you will. I don’t think that God punishes you for mere belief. Indeed, my religion says that you are not punished provided you never were Muslim in the first place. I do believe God will punish me if I choose to disbelieve. Therefore, it would be an immoral and evil act for you to try to convince me otherwise not because it will affect your eternal soul (since you are free not to believe in God since you are not a Muslim and never have been one) but rather because it will affect mine. To a Muslim an individual who is true to their own selves and follows a moral pathway may be saved. However, understand that unlike Christians, none of us are guaranteed salvation. There is no get out of Hell free card. You have to do good works (technically there is one other way to earn heaven and that was to die as a jihadist during the time of Muhammad or the Rightfully Guided Caliphs but that door closed in 661 AD and is therefore no longer open).

            As to your notion that we do good things because they are good in and of themselves that is wrong. We do things to advance our own interests and others are served similarly (see The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith for a good exposition), although it is certainly true that people tend to advance their interests when they do good (see The Theory of Moral Sentiments by the same author). Remember, however, that sometimes doing the moral thing can harm a lot of people as well. You simply do not know what the consequences will be. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I am sure that you would agree with me that it would have been immoral to kill Hitler as a baby (since you could not foresee that he would turn into a monster) but it is almost a certitude that the world would have been a good deal better for it (there is the possibility that someone he killed would have been worse — but I doubt it).

            Finally, you do not understand the complete purpose of prison. While the first two are certainly true, they are minor in comparison to the third (and actually most important) component: to act as a deterrent for others who seek to us harm. The mere threat of punishment does deter a very great many people from doing wrong. The fact that criminality increases when the ability to do so undetected increases is proof positive of this point.

            Peace Be Upon You.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            1. Sorry no. We didn’t capture Bin Laden through torturing terrorists. We got his location from bribing terrorists. This is a fact. The FBI rejects the use of torture and has stated and issued multiple reports detailing why torture doesn’t work. The CIA water boarded one suspected terrorist almost 100 times and never got anything worth wild out of him. Torture doesn’t work! Eternial torture certainly doesn’t work since there is no possibility for parole or repreive. Again, torture is not moral. No one should ever be tortured – not for five minutes and certainly not for all eternity.

            2. Again, I don’t believe in Hell or God so it is not a threat that I am worried about. However, the person asserting that I am going to hell is indeed making a threat. I may not believe that threat is real, but they are still making a threat… and as it is with all things, it is the thought that counts.

            Plus, some religious believers aren’t content to just let God sort it out. They feel the need to defend their all-powerful deity’s honor and so they may actually act on their threat in an attempt to “send me to Hell.”

            3. Hitler may be burning in your Hell, but he is safe in Christian Heaven. Fortunately, I don’t think he is there either. I am reasonably sure that when you die, you are dead. I know that sounds crazy and all, but we are not Super Mario. We don’t get extra guys.

            I am glad that you don’t think I deserve to be tortured for all eternity, but Most religious believers do believe with absolute certainty that I do in fact deserve eternal torture and that I will be going there. The fact is that no one deserves that. Not even Hitler. Don’t get me wrong, Hitler was a really bad guy for 56 years of his life. But how can you punish someone for 500 years because of stuff they did in the first 56 years. How can you punish someone for 5000 years for stuff they did in the first 56? How can you punish someone for 5 million years for stuff they did in the first 56 years? How about a billion years? Or a trillion years? Eternity is actually a pretty long time.

            ” I do believe God will punish me if I choose to disbelieve. Therefore, it would be an immoral and evil act for you to try to convince me otherwise not because it will affect your eternal soul (since you are free not to believe in God since you are not a Muslim and never have been one) but rather because it will affect mine.”

            Again, it isn’t immoral for me to convince you that your beliefs are wrong because you won’t be going to Hell if you leave Islam. Why? Because Hell doesn’t exist!!! Think for a moment about what you are saying here. You are saying that is someone has convincing reasons that you are mistaken about something, it would be immoral for them to share those reasons with you. Look, if I am wrong and Allah is the one true God, please convince me!!! I want to know because I am a curious person and if I am wrong, I would like to change my position so that I am right. You are saying that even if you are wrong, it is immoral for anyone to point that out to you because you believe you will be eternally tortured if you change you position. That doens’t seem very open minded or rational to me. Maybe I am showing my bias here, but I think people (myself included) should always strive for the truth no matter what that truth might be. We should change our position based on the evidence and not refuse to change our position out of fear of imagined consquences.

            4. Human beings do things out of our self-interest. That is true, but not everything we do is out of our self-interest in the way that Adam Smith claimed. That isn’t to say that we sometimes do things that aren’t in our self-interest. I don’t think there is true altuism in that sense but we do derive happiness from making other people happy. Altuism feeds our self-interest. Aristotle pointed out that happiness is the real goal of life. Which means that helping others even if it means giving up something we value better furthers our own self-interest. Adam Smith didn’t see that coming.

            5. Kant talks about principles and how that plays into our morality. I think he was on to something there. Killing baby Hitler would be wrong. I think the John Sheridan approach would be better. You might not be familiar with that reference, but the was a Babylon 5 movie called “The Lost Tales” that deal with this very question. To solution isn’t to kill baby Hitler; it is to educate Hitler to be different. That takes time and a life long investment into young Hitler’s life, but if you know he will grow up to be Hitler, it might be worth dedicating your life to teaching him to be different. Destiny doesn’t exist. Baby Hitler isn’t destined to be ruthless tyrant Hitler. Free will is an illusion. We are all a product of our nature and our nurture. If we have the opportunity to kill baby Hitler, we have to opportunity to nurture baby Hitler too.

            You are correct that we can’t really know the consequences of our actions, but we can have a reasonable expectation of what those consequences might be and we should act on those expectionation.

            Prison isn’t a deterent because most criminals don’t believe they will get caught. Studies have shown this to be true. Prison is a really poor deterent. That isn’t to say that absolutely no one is ever deterred, but that most criminals are not deterred. A better deterent would be to make sure that potential criminals have no desire to be criminals. This means that we have to improve the quality of life for everyone. Studies have also shown that crime goes up when the economy goes down and crime goes up in areas where poverty is highest. Again, it isn’t about free will, it is about nurturing better behavior. This is just another example of how religious thinking harms society.

            In reason,

            -Staks

          • Bryan

            Hi Staks, why is it as important as it is to you to argue belief with strangers? There will always be atheists and there will always be believers. When it turns verbally abusive or defensive as it appears is often where is your gain? I couldn’t thrive in an environment like this, nor would I want to. Can you tell how this works in a positive manner for you?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
          • Inexorable Dream

            Chuck, I’ve been reading your comments and I agree with you. The best verse, (I don’t have it 100% memorized by book, chapter and verse and right now should be getting some sleep before work) to explain DT’s misunderstanding is simply something like the one when Christ was explaining that if you deny Him in front of your peers, He will deny you in front of His father.
            DT, remember that the stoning of people for their sin was already happening before the birth of Christ. Jesus came to us to explain that nobody is perfect, not you, not me, not Abe Lincoln. No human being is more deserving of heaven than any other. Christ is there, He is here, in my heart or in whomever’s heart that believes and asks for His promise. If you don’t ask for it you will not receive it. Why should you? How can you ask for something that you do not think is real? It is impossible. That is simple logic and should at least make a bit of sense whether you believe or not.

          • Chuck Bump

            God’s Son lives–You need to proof read your comments before you post. Is “crafts” supposed to be “Christ’s”? One sentence is completely beyond understanding. If you’re going to speak for us Christians, be accurate because non-Christians will hold you to a higher bar than to themselves or their peers.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I hold everyone to the same standard here and I don’t take points off for spelling and grammar as long as I can understand the ideas being expressed. Here evidence and valid arguments count more than spelling.

          • Bryan

            Hi Staks, can you explain the standard you hold everyone here to? Thank you

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I did.

          • Nerdsamwich

            What? I can’t understand what you’re saying. It sounds like you’re clumsily re-presenting Pascal’s Wager, which has been shown to be absurd too many times for me to bother doing so again here. Further, it appears that you’re trying to tell me that the Bible tells you to treat your fellow man with respect and be a good person. Are we reading the same book?

          • Tim Tian

            “I die leaving a good memory behind and then buried never to be alive again.” and there we go again. Somehow christians are intrinsically better than atheists.

        • Eldritch

          I have a computer science degree and also had a NDE in 1998, where I was clinically dead for just under 5 minutes. I can’t say it made me a believer in Christ, but I can tell you this life isn’t the end. You have faith there is no hell. I am not so sure, and unlike the person you were chastising I do have evidence, albeit anecdotal.

          I laughed when a doctor told me the after death experience I had was induced by the release of DMT(which he called the most powerful hallucinogen on earth) at death and created an hallucination of an after life. When he asked me why I was laughing I told him it was because I was a recreational drug user in the 60s, had done DMT several times and it was nowhere near as powerful as Belladonna. He raised his eyebrows as I extrapolated.

          I explained to him that when you come down off of hallucinogens, you know the difference between hallucinations and reality, much like when you wake up from a dream. Then I assured him what happened to me was real and not an hallucination, and if anyone knew the difference it would be me. Of course he had nothing.

          Medical science’s position on NDEs is nothing but an incorrect theory meant to debunk any connection to spirituality or the supernatural. Unfortunately in my world this is not science.

          Science relies on faith all the time. The big bang theory relies on a number of hypotheticals. Things like inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory. Yet these things have never been observed, they are assumed without proof. This is not science either, and would not be tolerated in any other branch of science.

          However there is no greater parallel between religious faith and science than the postulation of a multiverse. In Stephen Hawking’s new book the authors postulate that two pre-existing universes collided and the result was the birth of our universe(big bang). There is no more proof of this than there is of a supreme being creating our universe. None.

          Religious people spend their time and money on Bibles, whereas atheists spend their time and money on intentionally inflammatory books written by Hitchens, Dawkins etc. I see no difference.

          IMO the one real truth is no one knows the real truth, and no one should assert that they do.

          PS You probably should have listened to the whole spiel before you hastened to denounce it and used speculation to buttress your critique. They actually do tell you what the cures are if you listen to it all. Extract of frankincense was one, olive oil was another, and I can’t remember the rest.
          Cheers,
          Eldritch

          • Tim Tian

            Science = The best explanation for what we can observe using the least/most-likely-to-be-true assumptions
            Religion = Stuff science, I believe what I want
            Difference = One is more likely to be true (you’ll never guess which one)

        • Justsomeguy151

          So yr the genius who believes that Life can create itself; that in Nowhere and Nowhen, Nothing exploded for No reason and created Everything; that a reptile can lay an egg w/ a mammal inside; and that scaly, cold blooded reptiles w/ reptilian lungs and hips, magically transformed into feathered, warm blooded birds w/ completely different avian lungs and hips? Your intelligence is imaginary as is yr faith of evolution. Shame on you for spreading lies and deceit out of yr own ignorance and vanity. I don’t believe the claims from the man pushing the book but that by no means invalidates the Bible or Christianity. It validates what the Bible says, “Beware of deceivers who come in my name…”.

          • Tim Tian

            FYI and FTR evolution has been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

        • Bryan

          Hi Staks, how do you know ones diety of choice is not real? Regarding the Mathew 4 protocol, could you please elaborate on the 3 universities and their evidence backing up the protocol? Thank you

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Since there is no evidence for any deities, one’s deity of choice is almost certainly not real.
            3 universities? Please present their evidence and how the Bible specifically claims that this treatment will cure disease? Thank you ;-)

        • Rodd K MacDonald

          How do YOU KNOW, it’s not? Atheism is just another religion, basing it’s rules, that were created by men, that choose not to, believe or follow something they can not see or touch with their own physical body. No matter how you word it MAN CAN NOT & HAS NOT CREATED ANYTHING, that was not ALREADY HERE (on earth). With that being said, please ENLIGHTEN me, SAVE me from my own ignorance (LOL). Whew forgive me, but I do find it funny that Atheist’s try and treat people that do believe as if they are dumb. Bottom line you either believe in the spirit of GOD (and ALL that goes with it) wich is limitless, thanks to the imagination (not created by man) or you believe in man (and ALL that comes with it) which is limited to only what man can create, which was already here when MAN got here. Which means MAN didn’t CREATE, he USED what was ALREADY here! I said that to say…
          Believe in LIMITS or BELIEVE YOU’RE LIMITLESS! Your choice. Me I’M LIMITLESS.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            First, I never claimed nor treated anyone as dumb… until now.
            I don’t really think I should be the one to tell you about the birds and the bees, but I know that man (and woman) create other human beings because I have seen a baby come out of my wife. I reason that since I was once a baby, I probably came out of my mother. I then reason further that all human beings were once babies and therefore they all probably came out of their mothers.

            Now we are even. You treated me as a dumb person and I responded in kind. Happy?

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            I see now why your name is dangerous. You like to insult people that you have know idea as to who the hell they are. But that too, is cool with me. Simply because I believe in GOD doesn’t mean that I won’t ask him for forgiveness later, for a sin I might commit in a fit of anger. Just know that insulting people can be dangerous to ones health. So please DON’T believe it, I DARE YOU!!! Now you can kick me off your page to never let the public hear from me again. Not a problem it’s your page & your forum, I’m just a guest with an opinion. I will admit that I’m NEW to the forum thing I was trying to find out about this cure for cancer stuff & came across this forum, when I clicked on a link in a google search. I foud it interesting. After going back to the very begining I saw that the quote I said was yours belonged to someone that is listed as ME. I ASS – UMED, it was YOU. My bad doesn’t make me dumb, just means I made a mistake. In regards to WHO you insulted, not IF you insulted anyone.
            Anyway let me know when your more thatn just talk, let me know when YOU can put action behind that mouth YOU THINK, you have. YOU didn’t create the ameba so how the hell can YOU think YOU created anything. IT the ameba was here BEFORE YOU got here. How did the ameba get here. It damn sure wasn’t by your mama or dad. YOU SIRRED your children & your wife (poor lady) bore your children but neither one of you created a damn thing. But I understand you need to twist shit to make it fit your level of thinking because it would fuck up your whole mind to think otherwise & then realize that you been wasting the worlds time. Simply because the world aint shit beyond what your limited mind can fatham. GOD didn’t answer your prayers so now he doesn’t ezxist because GOD didn’t live up to YOUR expectations. Well based on your writings & your attitude I’d turned a cold ear to your prayers too. But hey I’m human so I can LOL. Anyway holla. Now GOD may get mad at me for being combative, so he’s gonna have to forgive me, ’cause I have mastered that turn the other cheek shit yet, but I’m workin on it.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Why would I delete your comment? It is hilarious!!! First you insult me and then when I insult you back (in a joking fashion) you insult me further, insult my wife, AND threaten me… all while yelling with your caps lock too. I love that shit.

            BTW, it is pretty stupid to take a Christian’s comment that insults me as my comment that insults me. That’s a pretty stupid mistake.

            My point is that you started the hostility and then you continued the hostility with threats. The most I did was treating you not even in kind (since I never threatened you). Go cry me a river.

            *Christians and their persecution complex*

          • Rodd K MacDonald

            No I didn’t insult you in the begining. NBUt I understand YOU have this insaciable need to be right because GOD didn’t answer your prayers, aww boo hoo. Get over it. simply because GOD doesn’t live up to YOUR expectations doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist. It just means that your dumb ass aint found him yet. And if there are others like YOU, then their dumb asses aint found him uet either. And they shouold stop following yo dumb ass ’cause YOU lost.
            are we done now or do you need the last word. If so just let me know how to get my name of the reponse list, ’cause I swear I aint got time fro a dumb ass m otha fu c a like you. So please, please delete me damn I’m sorry I wasted my time.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            LOL. Delete you from what? I never added you to anything. You came to my blog and started treating me like I was stupid (while falsely accusing me of calling people stupid), yelling at me with caps lock, insulting me, and threatening me. Believe me, I would never put you on any of my lists so I have no idea what you want me to delete you from? I’m going to leave your comments up on the blog post because 1. they are hilarious. 2. they are evidence in case you try to actually follow through on your threats. 3. because they are a great example of what I have to deal with from “peace loving” Christians on a daily basis. and 4. because they truly are hilarious.

            A little piece of advice. Stop yelling, be a nicer person, and enjoy your one and only life.

          • Praise God

            Insult you back (in a kind way)? What does that even mean? I hate to say this….I didn’t want to bring myself down to your level. But you really are an absolute idiot!!!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            That’s the level you have been at from the start. It doesn’t really surprise me.

          • Tim Tian

            FTR, you’re using capital letters, he isn’t

        • Someone

          Evidence? That god is real ? Look around you. What more evidence do you need. Do you think everything just magically appeared & we just evolved from a fish ?But where would the fish come from ? Would it just magically be there & magically evolve into a human being with over 200 bones in it’s body? & just so happens that the bones are placed perfectly in your body so you can walk, talk, breath, ect. & animals too, there’s hundreds of different species of animals, but they probably fell out of space huh? But how did space even come to be there in the first place ? how was the earth there? how was anything there? Oh, maybe magic right? Or we can listen to “scientists” & believe that it was just always there. But no. That’d be stupid. Like everyone who believes that bullcrap.
          You must have been poorly raised. Try reading a bible. It actually would make sense on how everything came to be instead of believing it was just always there or “magic”.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Leprechauns!

          • mtnfraggle

            Translation: “I don’t know or understand, so God.” Btw, who created God?

          • Scott

            Agreed. It actually takes more faith to NOT believe in God than to believe.
            Not to mention that we all have interchangeable parts for transplants, if I need blood I can get it from someone else I don’t even know. My mom-in-law was diagnosed with AML in 1999. At 62 she received a bone marrow transplant from someone unknown and unrelated. Today she is 77 and lives a vibrant, happy, Christ centered life.
            To believe that was all by happenstance takes more faith than believing that God created it all including the science behind finding the ability to even use bone marrow to save someone’s life.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, the old, “if takes more faith not to believe bullshit than it does to believe bullshit” routine. I haven’t heard that one before. – http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/atheism-101-does-it-take-more-faith-to-be-an-atheist

            No, the Bible doesn’t talk about bone marrow transplants. Human beings learned about it through studying to human body with scientific reasoning. It was hard work with long hours and lots of fighting against religious people. Thank a doctor and a scientist for your medical miracles, not your favorite imaginary deity.

          • Scott

            I know it’s kind of lame to use a worn out statement. But, we all do it.

            and you’re correct, no bone marrow transplants in the bible. But it is pretty amazing that we can use body parts from others, dead or alive, to help someone else live. Not to mention animal parts.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yes, it is amazing. Science is awesome!!! Don’t try giving the credit to your bronze-aged deity for the awesome work of modern day scientists and doctors who through the scientific method have been able to do amazing things. Faith cannot compete. Next time your mother-in-law needs a transplant, ask her if she would rather see a priest or a doctor. I bet you the doctor will win every time. Science will win because it works.

          • Scott

            Actually, she gives praise to God for the doctors who took care of her and for giving them the knowledge to allow her to be healed.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            That’s not very nice. Those doctors worked hard to help her and she won’t even thank them for their hard work and skill? Instead she thanks some imaginary being right in front of their face? That’s like a big FU to the doctors, don’t you think? Unfortunately, most doctors in the country are probably used to it and just shrug it off. But maybe next time you can remind her to actually thank the people who actually saved her life instead of thanking the imaginary deity she believes gave her the medical problem to begin with. Just say’n.

          • Tim Tian

            We have explanations that actually fit with the evidence. Of course you can believe that god created a flat square earth that the sun revolves around in 6 days around 6000 years ago.

        • GWG

          I used to be an agnostic. Then I watched Father Robert Barron’s responses to atheists on you tube. I would like to know your impression of these. I will just watch here for your response to watching them. Thank you. GWG

        • Linda Gentry

          Because Jesus lives in my heart is how I know he is real. The Devil, Hell, and Heaven are also real. The Holy Bible is also the living word of God! I guess you will have to find out when you die if they are real if you don’t except Jesus Christ as your savior now but then it will be to late for you. Today is the day of salvation That is your BIG loss, but I will pray for you.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Tom Cruise knows in his heart that Lord Xenu is real. How can you dismiss his personal experiences with Lord Xenu? Maybe you will find out that Tom Cruise was right when you die. But by then it will be too late. That would be a BIG loss.

            If only we had a method to help us figure out which one of you is correct (if either of you are correct at all) that could independently verify and evaluate the facts… oh yeah, there is that Scientific Method thing. Maybe we can try that out. What do you think?

            Besides, would you really want to worship a deity that allows for billions of people to be tortured for all eternity? Think about it.

        • a real homeschool mom

          Without God there is no inherrent good and evil. Therefore, there is no righteousness or shame. You can not call judgement bad (shameful) without recognizing a moral law that supercedes human feeling.

        • Travis D.

          D.T.
          We judge you by your words, which reveal and reflect the life you live, and the principles you live by. It is possible to learn a lot about a person by what they say, what they condemn, what they believe in and don’t. How they respond when confronted on those beliefs. Your response, is consistent with your words. Sad, Angry, Empty, Defensive. The shame is on you. What people say to you are not Threats, but Truths. Your response is akin to a man going skydiving but refuses to wear a parachute. Someone hears you talking and it is evident you neglected to bring a chute. We tell you that if you jump out of the plane you will die. And your response “Don’t threaten Me!” As you jump out the plane we can only pity you.
          We all live by Faith my friend. And that Faith is based on Evidences we choose to accept or reject.
          We have no proof the car next to us will stay in their lane. We have no proof that the food we eat is safe.
          The majority of human knowledge is not based on personal discovery, but on faith in other’s discoveries.
          You read a book about history but you were never there. You may not know how to read Ancient Greek Scripts.
          Books mention Fossils, but have you touched them yourself? Did you dig them out of the ground?

          How much of your Knowledge and Beliefs are based on the Testimony of others as Evidence.

          I dare say 99%

          But you Confuse PROOF with Evidence my friend.
          The World is FILLED with Evidence of and for God. You choose to dismiss that evidence. And that is the free-will God gave you.
          Salvation and Grace is the Gift he has held out to you, but that too requires you to have Faith and Believe in Him.
          God Bless you on your Journey to him. May your Spirit find, what your Pride rejects.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Here we go again. When someone tells me that I will be and should be tortured for all eternity, that is a threat. The intention there is to be threatening. Granted, most Christians don’t actually intend on carrying out that threat… although I have met quite a few who do. No, your threats are imaginary just like your deity.

            I never asked for proof of God. I asked for valid evidence. You claim the Bible provides that evidence, but it really doesn’t. In fact, the Bible is pretty strong evidence against the claim that the main character (God) exists. The Bible is been shown to be flat out wrong about history, biology, cosmology, and morality. It was also extremely poorly written and is self-contradictory in more than a few places.

            What people value does say a lot about them. I value science, compassion, tolerance, education, curiosity, equality, and critical thinking. What do you value? Authoritarian rule by an imaginary lord, treating women as property, dogmatic thinking, indoctrination, conformity, fear, personal attacks, and eternal torture.

            Evidence is something that can be tested, peer-reviewed, and observed. As a point of fact, prayer has been tested and it has failed every time. Instead of pointing out actual evidence for your deity of choice, you just assert that he is real and claim dismiss the science that strongly supports evolution via natural selection and the big bang. All you have left is the God of the Gaps and thanks to science those gaps are getting smaller every day.

          • Tim Tian

            Yes we have no proof against god or for science beyond all possible doubt, but we do have the proof beyond all reasonable doubt. It’s fine by me if you don’t want to be reasonable.

      • karlschneider

        Which god? There are hundreds to pick from. Not that it matters, they are all make-believe. http://www.godisimaginary.com
        You’re too stupid to realize the post from “Me” is sarcasm, I see.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          First, I love the site “God Is Imaginary.” I have been a big fan of Marshall Brain’s for a long time.

          Second, I did not realize that the post from “Me” is sarcasm because I actually get e-mails from serious Christians that are just like that. Sarcasm needs to be over the top and snarky and it is hard to top fundamentalist Christians especially when you leave out the snark. In fact, I have gotten many e-mails over the years that were much more over the top than the “me” comment and were from completely serious Christians. So maybe your sarcasm just wasn’t very good. Try again next time.

      • K

        Judge not, least ye be judged.

      • Lev Tolstoi

        See above you, iddiot!!!

      • Justsomeguy151

        Its sarcasm/satire, genius.

      • Tactical111

        “God” is man’s creation; esp “Jesus”. However, fasting is very good for you and you can literally starve cancer with a zero carb diet and Intermittent Fasting. Believe in “God” if you want but it is Man’s creation. Do your research and see the website “Pagan Origins of the Christian MYTH” for PROOF.

      • whocares

        I like you.

      • mreddiebjones

        The undeniable fact is that none of us can know whether God exists or not. This is true whether we like it or not. If Christians are wrong, they’ve lost nothing (certainly not in their own minds). If the atheist is wrong, according to the Bible, he or she will be missing out on something incredibly, extraordinarily and eternally wonderful. But because the atheist does not believe the Bible, he or she does not care and that is certainly their prerogative. Unfortunately for the atheists, they only look at it from a point of view that they are right and, the undeniable fact is, they have absolutely no way of knowing whether they are right or not. For that, I am sad for all the atheists who are reading this post and will pray to God for you all (and no, I do not need your permission to pray for you).

      • al707

        Me, was talking about the author of the article not himself, he was making fun of the atheist author.

    • Lev Tolstoi

      Weeeeeeee! You’re a morron, you’re using INVENTIONS by ATHEISTS , like COMPUTER, INTERNET, TV, HD, CAR, AIRPLANE, ETC…EMPTY LIFE? that’s yours,
      you brain-washed iddiots,. atheists are educated, intelligent, funny, witty, and too busy inventing things that even religious morrons like you and the others on this forum, can use/enjoy, to be empty, unfulfilled!!! That actor you enjoy, that musician, that painter, artist, they all are atheists, and far from an empty, UNFULFILLED life,you imbbecile! that’s YOU! You and all the other religious iddiots, produce nothing , exept hate, racism, envy, lies, greed(watched GOP lately?) and make pedophile priests rich!!! That’s who YOU are!!
      Hows that coming back to earth, you oblivious iddiot? If WE left things to you, religious idiots,. we’ll still be in..caves right now, and ride horses!! Thank God for the educated, smart, common sense atheists to invent all these beautiful things you take for granted by..insulting the people that invented them!! Go back under your rock, iddiot!!

      • Emily

        Umm. Who’s doing the insulting? Who’s calling people “iddiots” meaning idiots, and “morrons” meaning morons!!

      • Emily

        oh – I forgot “imbbecile” meaning imbecile….

      • Emily

        Wow! You use very aggressive language/expressions??? People who have faith in God really seems to bother you? Strange….

        • perdue1111

          Amen!! Lol!

      • perdue1111

        Lev….stop entertaining yourself looking in your mirror! Lol!

      • Tim Tian

        I was wondering, did you hear about spellcheck?

    • KDBUG

      Then one must wonder “IF” you truly don’t believe, why you would bother to care enough to torture everyone who has faith in God? Sounds like God didn’t answer a prayer the way you wanted at some point and time in your life. This is not Heaven, we all experience our own storms to endure but I also see beauty. Surely even someone that claims to be empty and unfulfilled has experienced the goodness of God at some point in their life. Sometimes we get so taken by the storm, we can’t see the rainbow in the midst of it. God has a better plan for you. You have free will so you certainly have to right to make your choices in Life. God didn’t want robots. He wants us to come to Him because we love Him and prefer Him over darkness. I am thankful that I know God is real and I personally have seen just the mention of Jesus name drop someone possessed with demons to her knees. It didn’t take a touch only saying Jesus. I don’t just believe I know. I think you know Him too but you are angry.

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        So many fallacies so little time. I guess the easiest thing to do here is to refer you to my Atheism 101 Series at the top of the page. Thanks.

    • John Williams

      i want you all to help me thank Dr. Ariba for
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      was 7 months pregnant, i was confused and i didn’t know what to do until i
      meant a friend on the internet who directed me to Dr. Ariba, i did not believe
      it until i contacted the good man who was able to help me out of the situation
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      can also call him on +2348163979933, or
      contact me to confirm [email protected] i pray
      that God will use Dr. Ariba to cure a lot of people in Jesus name. thanks and
      God bless you all.

    • Tab Brown

      You don’t seem to know much about the King James edition of the bible, or the American Bible, which is a sort of copy, for that matter. The bible was commissioned by King James of England in the 1600′s. He was a much despised King because of his inability to rule with wisdom. His kingdom was about to be removed from his rule, when his advisers came up with the idea of making a readable bible in English. The bible was compiled from three manuscripts, now held in the Oxford library, which are kept under lock and key because we aren’t allowed to view them. None of the text was part of the original manuscripts, it was put together as a rhyming text that made it easy to read and remember. So, not the word of any god, just the words of King Johns mates to keep him in power. (The American Bible is a later copy of King James bible.)

    • Corey Firepony

      What makes the life of an atheist unfulfilled. It sounds like you are projecting your own feelings here.

    • MrJoepch .

      Feel sorry for you, but please keep your toxic mind to yourself.

    • mreddiebjones

      The undeniable fact is that none of us can know whether God exists or not. This is true whether we like it or not. If Christians are wrong, they’ve lost nothing (certainly not in their own minds). If the atheist is wrong, according to the Bible, he or she will be missing out on something incredibly, extraordinarily and eternally wonderful. But because the atheist does not believe the Bible, he or she does not care and that is certainly their prerogative. Unfortunately for the atheists, they only look at it from a point of view that they are right and, the undeniable fact is, they have absolutely no way of knowing whether they are right or not. For that, I am sad for all the atheists who are reading this post and will pray to God for you all (and no, I do not need your permission to pray for you).

    • Christian II

      Very interesting ‘Me’, another rather logic-less mentality to dissect here!?! Perhaps you defy a god or THE GOD /Creator in your life subconsciously or even Consciously!?…. you wish to remain in control!! Did you just appeared out of nowhere; how did you become you!?!….. Have eyesight, hearing, your heart happens to beat continuously, your organs all function harmoniously, you are able to think. Even purporting these rather ridiculous comments of yours; all as the universe is in unison harmoniously; this earth providing life as the Sun continues to warm this perfectly round planet , trees blossom each Spring, a rebirth once again!…… Babies are born from an interfacing of an egg and microscopic sperm !?!? Again, if there be no supreme designer here of this infinite Universe >> Where did you come from and where are you going….. ask yourself!?! If anything, I would rather believe in a loving GOD, Jesus Christ, as I do believe!!….. but your approach /assessment, if proven wrong will perhaps lead to your infinite demise….. Don’t forget to breath today!!!!.. Lastly: I guess all those apostles and multitude of followers of Jesus were all nuts preaching HE Has Risen…. Just something to ponder over as you wait for your life to end without purpose to begin with
      ?@!?!

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        I love how you are responding to a Christian and acting like he or she is an atheist. That’s awesome.

        You brought up the Argument by Design which is a failed argument. Google it.
        You also assumed that the Bible is actual history when there is no evidence for that. The Gospels are quite contradictory and aside from the Gospel writers, no one has reported the rise of zombies in that time and place… or any time and place for that matter. Do I think the “apostles and multitude of followers of Jesus were all nuts preaching HE Has Risen?” No, I think they didn’t exist and that the Gospel was fiction! Check out my Atheism 101 Series at the top of the page. The last article in the series addresses this.

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        I should also add that I am not just waiting for life to end. I live my life since it is the only one I have to live. I’m not looking forward to death, because death is the end. We are not Super Mario and we do not get extra lives when this one is over. Stop wasting your one and only life. Live your life!! Live it.

    • xMVince

      Weeee look everyone, I’m a religious nut! I’m afraid of trying new things because it’s against my religion. God will punish me if I enjoy myself too much. I’ll just sit here and pray/worship until God takes me away and I can start living my REAL life in heaven! Oh boy I can’t wait!

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        Best comment all day… possibly the best on this entire article.

        • xMVince

          Thanks :)
          And I appreciate you writing this article, as it saved me having to listen to that scam video. Always interested in cures for cancer, so they really baited me in with this one..
          Keep spreading the truth!

  • karlschneider

    Anyone dumb enough to believe in magical sky daddies is pure gold for scammers who are more than willing to separate gullible idiots from their money. Preachers have been doing it for centuries.

    • Kevin Laplante

      I think those who are on the receiving end of charity would beg to differ.
      Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full—pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. Luke 6:38
      Surely, even an atheist would agree that helping a neighbor in their time of need is the right thing to do.

      • Tim Tian

        Sure, except the church is already rich and don’t need money

  • http://mackquigley.wordpress.c

    You write, “People wrote the King James Bible, not God” because ”
    Even
    if you are a fundamentalist religious person who believes that God
    wrote (or divinely inspired) the Bible, human beings translated and
    published it in the form of the King James Bible. – See more at:
    http://www.skepticink.com/dangeroustalk/2014/01/27/bible-cured-cancer/#sthash.eG71iGcq.dpuf

    Even
    if you are a fundamentalist religious person who believes that God
    wrote (or divinely inspired) the Bible, human beings translated and
    published it in the form of the King James Bible. – See more at:
    http://www.skepticink.com/dangeroustalk/2014/01/27/bible-cured-cancer/#sthash.eG71iGcq.dpufhuman beings translated
    Even
    if you are a fundamentalist religious person who believes that God
    wrote (or divinely inspired) the Bible, human beings translated and
    published it in the form of the King James Bible. – See more at:
    http://www.skepticink.com/dangeroustalk/2014/01/27/bible-cured-cancer/#sthash.eG71iGcq.dpuf and published it”
    .

    You’re point is completely irrelevant as Saint Peter wrote in the first chapter of his second epistle: “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”

    The holy men of God spake but they were moved by the Holy Ghost – and so the King James translators may have been mere men, but God was at work through them to produce a perfect Bible in English.

    You are correct that this guy selling a cancer cure is a fraud, Saint Peter also wrote, “And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.”

    Christians have something better than a cure for cancer, we have eternal life promised to us by our risen Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. And he offers it free to all who repent and believe the gospel.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      So are you advocating letting cancer patients die quickly so that they can get to Heaven without having to suffer longer here on Earth?

      • Growing

        No, he is saying YOU have no hope as an atheist!

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          First, don’t change the subject. The comment was that Christians have something better than a cure (i.e. Heaven). So as a Christian, do you believe it is better to let a Christian cancer patient die quickly so that they can get to Heaven (better than a cure) without having to suffer longer here on Earth?

          Second, if there is one word to describe me, it would be Hope. I have a lot of hope especially as an atheist because I know just how far human beings have come through the use of science and critical thinking. Just think of how much further we can go if we didn’t have religious believers holding us back with your ancient superstitions. That is why I am so interested in educating people away from faith-based thinking.

          Third, prayer doesn’t work. If you have cancer, the best you can do is go to a doctor. There is no secret healing code to be found in ancient fairy-tales. Sorry.

          • saved by grace

            God created man and man was perfect and then man decided he was smarter than man and did not need anyone else. So the sin of man has really made a mess of things. diseases, killing of babies, immorality. killing of innocent people because man can no longer control his emotions. There is only one true God, the others are myths or dead. But my savior tomb is empty while all the others are full of bones and dust.
            Praise His holy name.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow. Let me ask you something. When you get sick, do you go to a doctor or do you just pray?

          • saved by grace

            both. We all have gifts from God and so we have doctors and researchers to help us deal with the disease man has created with his sin. I pray to God that it be His will that the medicine will heal my sickness. Christians are human and human life has the want to live as long as they can because the human part of us want to stay with family and friends. I am not afraid of death. I have loss lots of love ones in some pretty tragic accidents. But the thing that sustains me is knowing even though they left way to early they are in a place where there is no hurt, They are in paradise with our Savior and would not come back to us even if they could. Death does not scare me but pain does. God does not promise us we will not have any pain or hurt here on earth,but He does promise us that in death we will be with Him for eternity. That is my security. I do not have to answer for what you choose to believe but I do have to face Him with what I believe. I had rather die with Jesus in my heart than die without Him because then there is no hope.Everyone has free will to chose in what they believe in and I chose to believe that God loves me and blesses me everyday.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a moment here (no pun intended). Doctors use science to play God and extend people’s life and ease their pain. Wouldn’t it be better if when you got sick, you just prayed and put it in God’s hands? If God wants you to be healthy, he’ll cure you. If not, then he won’t. That should be God’s choice, not yours. Second, if the afterlife is so awesome, why try to prolong life?

            Final question, how do you know what God wants of you? Does he call you on the phone and tell you?

          • saved by grace

            I thought I covered that. The human flesh wants to live we are not perfect. I know what God wants for me because the Holy Spirit lives in my heart and He guides me. My father use to say if you have doubt about doing something then you probably should not do it. God does not cause doubt or conflict. It is God’s choice when I die and if He decides to heal me. You know my boy friend is an atheist and he has inoperable lung cancer. I pray for him everyday and he knows it but it does not upset him. Like I said before we have free will in our choices of beliefs and he chose not to believe and he will have to explain it to God when he comes face to face with Him. I have told him what I believe and how much God loves him even though he does not love God. I have done my part, the choice is his. There is only one thing I ask of him in respect for me and that is not use God’s name in vain. Never did understand that, you don’t believe in a God but when you curse the first thing you say is God’s name and then add damn to it. If you don’t believe in Him leave His name out of your vocabulary.

          • objective

            The answers to your questions are in the Bible, in a sense you are religiously illiterate. The body is the temple to your soul and you take care of it. Suicide is wrong, so logically both of these concepts would motivate you to prolong your life. Like I said, you are narrow minded and quick to speak of things without due diligence. Don’t expect anymore responses; just read, study and think before you speak, because when you don’t it doesn’t leave a good impression. BTW, the Huffington post is full of biased, inconsistent “facts”. The media is full of B.S.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I have done my due diligence and have studied the Bible for 20 years. Again, you can name call all you want, but until you present some actual facts with valid evidence, you can’t expect anyone to take your claims seriously.

            I’m asking you to do your due diligence and provide some actual evidence for your claims. If you can’t do that, then that should tell you something about the truth-value of your claims. It should at least cause you to have some doubts.

            Actually, I think it does cause you to have some doubts and that is probably why you are so afraid to research this stuff further and why you are so eager to leave this conversation. It is making you uncomfortable because you know there is no valid evidence for these claims and that your claims are actually false.

            As for HuffPo, all sites are biased but some actually cite sources. This HuffPo article is mine and I did cite sources. So don’t take HuffPo’s word or even my word for it, go and look at the sources and do your due diligence. Google is your friend, but not all websites are equal. Find reputable sites and research the facts for yourself. Don’t hide from knowledge. Seek it out and use your critical thinking skills to figure out truth from bullshit.

            As for the Bible, it is full of bullshit. That is easy enough to Google, but you really shouldn’t have to. Common sense should tell you that the Bible is fiction with more plot holes than a Michael Bay movie.

          • objective

            I do both. If you study the Bible and understand it, it has many answers. Man has a spiritual side whether you care to admit it or not. I would say you are under 30 years old, under 40? As you get older you start to understand. Good luck.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You can made two predictions. 1. I am under 30 years-old and 2. I am under 40-years-old. You could have just made one prediction and saved yourself the trouble. I am actually 39-year-old so your 1 for 1. Now I’m going to make two predictions. I bet you are over the age of 5 and under the age of 99. Am I good or what? Pick a whole number between 1 and 3. Let me guess your number is 2. See, I’m psychic too.

          • objective

            I am steadfast in my beliefs and I haven’t made any statements that conflict with fact. I do not feel threatened by your comments in any way. Let me ask you this, what is the factual,scientific hypothesis for the beginning of the universe? Hmmm, the big bang theory. Since you are a devout atheist and “student of science”, that is such a logical explanation there was a big bang and poof the universe existed. Now think about that one and your scientific proof. If you look at Genesis with an open mind, it collaborates with the beginning of the universe. Yes, you studied the Bible for 20 years, yet you don’t seem to have grasped many of it’s concepts or precepts. Note: in the beginning there was the void. Your arrogant, condescending demeanor is offensive, not so much to me as it is to your impression you leave with others. I am a Christian and I an well founded in science as well as theology and spirituality. I’m trying to get you to open your mind, as I mentioned, that is tough to do with those that think they have all the answers, intelligent dialogue is challenging. Best of luck in your journey we call life. ;)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I love how you state that you are “steadfast” in your beliefs and then turn around and claims that I am not “open-minded.” This is especially hilarious considering I made it pretty clear that I am not steadfast in my position and that I am very willing to change my position if presented with some valid evidence… which you have yet to provide.

            As for the Big Bang theory, Lawrence Krauss does a pretty good summary of the evidence for this in his book, “The Universe From Nothing.” But since Christians like you only like to tell atheists to read their book and never actually bother to read any books we suggest to you, Krauss does a video presentation of his book that can be found on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwzbU0bGOdc

            “Genesis collaborates with the beginning of the universe.” Really? Have you read Genesis? God created light before he created the sun. *facepalm* Are you still sticking to this as Genesis collaborates science? Because I can go on.

            I also think it is pretty funny that you project your faults onto me and other atheists. You are the one claiming to be “steadfast” in your beliefs and that what you believe is absolutely true and yet you claim that I am the arrogant one for daring to ask you for some valid evidence. I’m not claiming to know anything except that you have yet to provide any valid evidence for your claims… which for the record those claims are some pretty ridiculous. So again, do your due diligence and provide some actual valid evidence for your claims… unless you are so arrogant that you think you can just make naked assertions and everyone should just accept your assertions based on your superiority.

            You aren’t even going to apologize for guessing my age wrong are you? You are so arrogant that you can’t even admit your errors.

          • not my home

            I think the big bang is intensely glorifying of the Creator. Just think… building a universe out of the debris flying out in a radiating fashion, all the while maintaining static navigational points of light in the sky of a very small speck we call Earth. Wow! Glory to God! Also don’t forget His being able to synchronize solar orbits and even galactic organization, etc. involving debris flying out from the big bang. Careful friend… light is more than just something to see with. It is also something to live by.
            Ever think how God came up with all of the room with which to build the universe? Some one said that at one time… before time began that God was everything. “No-thing” existed except God. So when He decided to create He first had to devise or create something in which to contain Himself. So… He made something called eternity climbed inside of it THEN wa lah!!! He then had enough room with which to build His universe that is still expanding exponentially every minute. Sorry, I am not smart enough to say exactly how fast or how far but you might could ask an astronomer for that one. Try reading Job in the Bible and then explain how God could not possibly exist because we can not see, touch, or figure Him out?!? Are you kidding me/us??
            Another thought… ever wonder why if God did exist and in turn created this universe… He would be soo stupid to put planet Earth anywhere but in the center of His universe? Hey, iddy biddy people… we could not see squat from there, our vantage point would be uselessly covered with intergalactic gases, other solar systems, or various other view-blocking bits of matter, etc. Its a shame, He went to so much trouble to allow us to see what He has made and maybe recognize that… He exists… Oh well. But since He does not exist as some say, He should not have bothered showing off such ingenuity.
            Hopefully not to confuse anyone… when physicists began really cutting their teeth on the finer and higher complexities of their field, they hit on why God could not have possibly created His universe. The Genesis account of creation was suspect at best to think that God created things within 24 hour periods of time. A quick analysis of time based on the Genesis account would have the universe’s age at about 5,000 to 7,000 years or so. But that would be impossible because they had computed (very accurately, I might add) that our solar system would be loaded with floating debris all over the place. However, since our solar system was so clean of said debris such a young universe was impossible. Uh ooh! Not so fast… around 1992 the Kuiper Belt was discovered. So what? The young universe all of a sudden became possible! ….Imagine that… Now, since I have not ridiculed anyone or their philosophy for life do me the same courtesy. Let us leave it this way, someone said (kind of quoting Proverbs), “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” Remember… please read Job.
            One other thing, someone long ago was asked, “Don’t you think that that Jesus thing is just a crutch?” The reply, ” Maybe, but that is not a bad thing if you are cripple!” Don’t say anything snarky… remember, read Job.

          • objective

            You are quick to temper my friend,.Is it an offense to incorrectly guess someone’s age and worthy of an apology? Believe what you choose, I will not go to your level to prove anything, I have nothing to prove, we live in 2 totally different worlds. I understand the scriptures and you do not offend me with your mockery and your quickness to state my lack of intelligence for not knowing the facts. My concepts are not yours. I have not stated my superiority in any way. I state my opinions and my thoughts, you fail to see what I am trying to get you to see, that is because you do not think as I do. I have done my due diligence to understand my reality, which of course is not yours. Everyones’ reality is based on their perception. Some base reality on more than their 5 senses and extrapolate logical conclusions from data. You are so correct about due diligence. I have pointed things out to you, but you haven’t grasped my lead on them, please re’read some of the things I said and as you mentioned do some due diligence on them and ponder them. You did not get my comment about Genesis, again in the beginning there was nothing, a void. Translating what the concepts are in the Bible is critical in really understanding it. You continually call the Bible fairy tales, do you think that would be offensive to someone that is a Christian, yet you mock me and say I am arrogant. Your sensitivity to others that don’t follow your mindset is non-existent, yet you call me arrogant and stupid because I don’t believe as you do.You expect an apology because you say I incorrectly guessed your age, yet I am arrogant? I find this amusing to be honest, I am not quick to anger or to judge you. You believe what you want. Think what you want and say what you will, but in my opinion you have much to learn. All people have opinions and because my opinion doesn’t match your’s it doesn’t give you the right to insult me. All people should be treated with respect, your self included. If I have offended you, it is because you take things way too personally. I am stating my beliefs that is all and trying to present things to you to make you consider and think about them, this is a difficult task since you consider the Bible fairy tales. I have done due diligense on many of these things you discuss and I will not spend time doing sue diligence for you and presenting facts. Take your own advice and do due diligence on these things I touched upon. I wish you the best in life and hope that you will consider other points of view besides yours. Best of luck to you in this journey we call life.

          • T-Mann

            I am a different kind of Christian than the ones you typically pick on here. I don’t take any shit from assholes like you.

            You are an idiot, plain and simple. You have no backbone, hiding there behind your little keyboard, saying all your cruel and insensitive comments.

            You castigate yourself with your incessant idiocy. I, for one, WON’T be praying for the lost cause that you are, loser.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Another threat from someone who has the hypocrisy of “hiding behind a keyboard.”

          • guest

            Apparently you worship a different kind of christ:

            http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/macho_2478af_950112.jpg

            Lots of nasty words, still no evidence.

          • Praise God

            Again, very condescending….because you have to be…because your idea and rampages are insane!!!!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Lol, I responded in kind.
            So now you are calling my ideas “insane.” By your logic, you have just called me personally insane. Checkmate.

        • Praise God

          LOVE THIS! Couldn’t agree more Growing….you nailed it!!!

    • becp

      I agree with the initial post about Matthew 4 protocol. He claims that the cure isn’t being practiced and accepted because the pharmaceutical companies can’t make money at it. and he is doing the same thing. Despicable!
      People have the right to believe whatever they want. The fact is that many christians feel the need to pass judgment and isn’t that against the rules? I have met a ‘couple’ true christians who walked a truly good path but mostly I see christians who can do any despicable thing because all they need to do afterward is ask for forgiveness from God and all their mean spirited actions go away. not cool but true. If you out their claim to be a true christian, take a good look in the mirror and live like God will NOT forgive your sins, maybe then maybe being a Christian will do some good.

  • mikespeir

    “Well,
    I looked up Matthew 4, which is where the cure is said to be located
    and it talks about fasting for 40 days and 40 nights. So there it is.
    That must be the magical cure for cancer. ”

    And Jesus never got cancer, either, did he? Silly atheist!

  • https://twitter.com/mickskeptic Michael Stone-Richard

    All these miracle cures from god over the course of Christianity, ours for the asking. How wonderful. Just sincerely and fervently pray from your heart, ask Jesus for mercy and he will heal whatever ails you.

    P.S. Amputees need not apply.

  • John Lauber

    Wow, as a cancer survivor I can say this, this bull crap is worse than Lance Armstrong, at least his being a charlatan has finally been confirmed!

  • 2richard1

    For all the doubters explain away Isaiah 40:22 as it states God looking at his creation “earth” the earth is a circle and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers” this was written BC way before the flat earth time when Columbus was daring to cross the ocean. Explain away the chariots found on the bottom of the Red Sea in 2000 where the crossing of the jews was found, explain away the millions of brimstone found in Sodom and Gomorrah with 98% sulfur content nowhere on earth is that high a content of sulfur found rhombic sulfur from Volcanos is only 40%, explain away the Ark of Noah that was found in 48 in Turkey measuring exactly 300 cubits as stated in the bible. Why did christians sacrifice themselves for Jesus because they witnessed or their relatives witnessed his ascension into heaven. All the miracles he was documented to have performed proved his and Gods existence. His birth was predicted exacty 70 years beforehand and the town itself from a scripture in the Old Testament. He also predicted in 2nd Timothy people like yourself who will be puffed up with pride no natural affection so you are only hurting yourselves with stubborness about his existence and Gods existence.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      1. The Earth is a sphere, not a circle. Also, while many people in the west did not know this, many people in the middle-east and other parts of the world did. The eclipse offers pretty strong evidence for the shape of the Earth.

      2. “Chariots found on the bottom of the Red Sea” – http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/05/coming-this-fall-exodus-conspiracy-dr.html

      Also, something to keep in mind. The Exodus NEVER HAPPENED – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-rosch/the-biblical-exodus-story-is-fiction_b_1408123.html

      3. “brimstone found in Sodom and Gomorrah” Really? Really? Considering that archaeologists have yet to find Sodom and Gomorrah it is interesting that you are claiming that something was found in those two cities. We can’t even find those two cities let alone brimstone in those cities!!!!

      4. Noah’s Ark has also never been found. Every few years someone claims to have found a piece of it and then shortly afterward they are debunked or proven to have been in error. You really have to start Googling this shit before you use it as part of your argument.

      5. “Why did Christians sacrifice themselves for Jesus?” Why do Muslims sacrifice themselves for Mohammad? Why did Greeks sacrifice themselves for Zeus. This is seriously the stupidest argument you have used yet.

      6. “All the miracles he was documented” What about all the miracles by Sathya Sai Baba which you can watch on YouTube? They are much better documented than anything Jesus was alleged to have done. Hell, you can watch them on YouTube! Guess what? They are all bullshit! Magic tricks. 2000 years ago, those magic tricks might have fooled someone or maybe they didn’t even happen at all and someone just made them up. There really is no real documentation of any of it.

      7. No, his birth was not predicted in the Old Testament. The Hebrews have a very different conception of what a Messiah is that modern Christians do. Go talk to a rabbi and ask him about it sometime.

      *facepalm*
      Now that I have debunked every point you made, feel free to Google this shit for yourself and stop spreading false claims. Thanks you.

      • Kevin Laplante

        For someone with NO faith at all, you sure do spend a lot time reading articles and commenting on Christianity. Good, bad, indifferent…. not for me to decide! I hope you find what you’re searching for my friend. In the meantime, I’ll pray for your soul.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Yes, I know more about your faith than you do. Please check out my Atheism 101 articles and learn more: http://www.skepticink.com/dangeroustalk/atheism101/

          The more you know…

          • Seen it

            Actually, the Ark WAS found.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Actually it wasn’t. It was shown to be a hoax. Please Google this stuff before making such claims. Also, please provide actual evidence for the claims you make. Thanks.
            http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

          • Camielle

            It really does not matter if anyone tries to give you evidence because you automatically assume that there is no evidence for a god. Any attempts to provide you with evidence are dismissed because you read that the claims were invalid, according to some blog. You are like a judge who presumes someone to be guilty, until proven innocent. Do you see how, logically, that would deem most cases in the world to be inaccurately judged? I hold my belief in God, with no doubts whatsoever, because I gave Christianity a chance. I’ve read the entire Bible, and though I don’t agree with all of it, I think you could learn a plethora of life lessons from it. Atheists like you are so narrow-minded, which is ironic since you think that all Christians are. And I absolutely love how you assume that all awesome inventions were created by atheists! You say that religion is ridiculous, but my church does not teach people to be like you! Keep telling yourself “If you want to continue your short life as a bitter, stubborn human being who spreads negativity and intolerance for the ideology of people who believe in God, then go ahead. If you get off on trying to make others feel inferior for believing in God, then keep doing it because it makes you feel good! All that matters is you!”. It’s comical to know that their are actual human beings like you, even in the 21st century! Before, there was persecution of African Americans. Now, their is persecution against any group who has a different opinion than yours, coming from people like you, who think they are superior. I hate to break it to you, but different people have different opinions, *shocker* and attempting to cause religious people to feel inferior is only going to make you look like jerk. That’s all. I’m sorry I had the unfortunate chance of coming across into this article.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, you sure have a warped perception of me. Let me start by referring you to my most recent post, (It’s Easy To Convince An Atheist). Far from being narrow-minded, I’m open to evidence while you have admitted that you are narrow-minded by claiming to have “no doubts whatsoever.”

            Next, I don’t think I am superior at all. I have authored an article on that very subject and have continually held the position that all people should be respected. The difference is that I respect people, not beliefs. While you are entitled to your own beliefs, you are not entitled to your own facts. Plus, being entitled to your beliefs doesn’t protect those beliefs from criticism. I do not support outlawing ridiculous beliefs. Christians on the other hand have a long history of trying to force belief through legal means. Me, I respect your right to hold whatever ridiculous beliefs you like. You however seem intolerant of my right to criticize those beliefs. You don’t respect me. You see me an an evil sinner who deserves to be tortured for all eternity. That’s pretty mean. No one deserves to be tortured. Not for a minute and certainly not for all eternity. For what? lacking belief in ridiculous stories on insufficient evidence?

            There is one word for people like you… Projection.

          • Camielle

            Please don’t group me with the Christians who have a “long history of trying to force belief through legal means”. That’s like saying that all Germans are like Hitler and his followers. I have friends who are atheists, gay, Jewish, etc., and I get along fine with them and enjoy their company because we don’t project anything onto each other. Of course I’m not “tolerant “of your right to criticize beliefs, because that’s like being “tolerant” to a bully. But why did the bully say that in the 1st place? You claim that you “respect your right to hold whatever ridiculous beliefs you like” but you contradict yourself in the latter part of the sentence. As for the “evil sinner” thing, we are ALL sinners! Name one person who hasn’t done anything bad in their lives! I love God because He gives us a chance to be perfect, even though we are all far from perfect. He tells us to love others and not to judge people. How are those “ridiculous beliefs”? I still can’t get over the fact that you have a “right to criticize”. It’s a law, so it must be morally okay, right? Just like how women get paid less, and in some states you can fire people for no reason at all, and gay people in Kansas can be refused healthcare. Is it morally acceptable because it’s a law? In my opinion, no. It is not okay. I don’t understand why your morals are so low.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You said, “Of course I’m not “tolerant “of your right to criticize beliefs” and then you compared me to a bully. So let me see if I understand you correctly. You are stating that it should be illegal to criticize ideas?

            You are criticizing my right to criticize ideas and beliefs and calling all criticism of ideas and beliefs bullying. As someone who has been bullied during my formative years, I take offense to such a comparison. As I stated before, I don’t engage in personal attacks on people. You on the other hand have personally attacked me in this very comment thread.

            Second, as a point of fact, religious people do have a long history including the present of attempting to make any and all criticism of their beliefs illegal. This is the very same position you have espoused, so no, that is not “like saying that all Germans are like Hitler.”

            Third, Yes, I respect everyone’s right to hold whatever beliefs they like no matter how ridiculous those beliefs might be. Whether it is legal or not, I support the moral right for everyone to belief as they choose. If you want to believe that I am an “evil sinner” that is your right. If you want to believe that I should be tortured for all eternity, that too is your right. But your belief is not safe from criticism. No, I am going to call you out on those beliefs. I don’t believe that I am an evil sinner and I don’t believe that I or any one else should be tortured — not for five minutes and certainly not for all eternity.

            “It’s a law, so it must be morally okay, right?” No, where did you pull that from? I certainly never stated nor suggested such a ridiculous statement.

            You claim to not judge people and yet all you have done in this comment section is judge me. Not only have you judged me, but you judged me not even on what I have said or done, but on your strawman perception of what I must be like.

            Oh yes, you God tells people to love others. But the Bible also says that gays are an abomination and should be stoned to death. The God of the Bible says a lot of things and most of them aren’t all that pretty. And you have to audacity to claim that my morals are so low. Again, you might want to look in the mirror.

            But you, “I still can’t get over the fact that you have a ‘right to criticize.’” Really? So you think it is morally right to outlaw all criticism? Well, you have spent a great deal of time criticizing me, so I guess you would be the first person locked up for the law you would like to enact. I guess if no one had the right to criticize ideas and beliefs, the world would look an awful lot like Nazi Germany.

          • Tim Tian

            Hitler isn’t German.

          • Praise God

            You have made it crystal clear that you think your superior to us all…..c-mon now…..

          • Praise God

            LOLOL Dangerous Talk: We ALL have a warped perception of you. Are you just know comprehending that?

          • Praise God

            We will ask you to do the same….

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Hello…. I just did. The link was in the comment.

          • Praise God

            Yes, we see no evidence in your claim though?

  • Jules

    Praying for you.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Thanks, I hope you will start thinking critically about your beliefs in addition to your prayers. ;-)

  • Salvatore A. Minnella Sr.

    Reading the comments on here is entertaining at the least. I love how hard atheist take the stance that God is nothing more than a mythical creature. They spend their lives trying to debunk the Bible instead of reading it with an open heart and trying to find the Creator. We all have the right to believe what we want but I don’t spend my life running around throwing stones at atheist because I have nothing to prove to them. It is said that there are no atheist on their death-beds and I am sure that the atheist will be looking for God at that time since they have nothing more to look towards. No hope, no heaven, no God, no Savior. The only hope they have is that God is not there when they die. If we, “The Bible Thumpers”, as we have been called by atheist are wrong and there is no God then we have spent our fruitless lives giving people what you would call (False Hope), helping our neighbors in need, giving our money to the poor and giving people the hope and faith to live a decent fulfilled life for a promise of a new eternal life. No harm done. But if we are right, well, your in trouble……

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Pascal’s Wager much?

  • TimboT

    With “GOD” all things are possible. It is bad choices in one’s life that causes disease. It is obvious the majority of human beings make an abundance of BAD choices. What get’s me pissed is the fact that all the godless atheists poo-poo anything written in the Bible and will suffer the consequences. The fact that these people have a desire to make money from this “so-called” discovery is not evil in and of itself, the whole world wants to make money, especially the damned atheists who worship only the carnal side of existence. Those who posted this slur on what could very well be a “cure” only show me how negative the scum bags are. Frankincense has been clinically proven to KILL airborne bacterium, strange is it not that the 3 Wise Men brought this herb to the New Born “KING”~! Peace be Unto You~!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Did you know that I have the deed to the George Washington Bridge and I will sell it to you for a really cheap price. You would be a fool not to buy it. Are you interested?

  • Steel
    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Lol, that is basically the argument by design dressed up with science sounding language. But none of your claims have been peer-reviewed and none of it is actually science.

  • robert hendrickson

    The bible was inspired by god. I believe it was the scientist Richard Feynman who said that a super intelligent being can implant thoughts into the human brain thru the quantum wave process. Also, michio kaku?the physics professer at n.y.u.has said that teleportation is possible but humans dont have the energy to it. Just like a starship. We do not have the energy for that. That means the great atheist Thomas Paine is probably wrong when he said in reference to jesus’ s ascension “who am I to believe two men or mother nature. Something to contemplate

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      There is a whole lot of stupid in that comment. For the record, Thomas Paine wasn’t an atheist (although I wish he were). He actually argued quite a lot against atheism. His problem with Christianity was that it was so ridiculous that he feared people would become atheists once they saw how ridiculous Christianity was.

      Next, I am pretty sure you have taken Feyman out of context because it is doubtful he would make such a statement except within a hypothetical context.

      Michio Kaku is correct that we lack the energy for transporter technology. But he was not talking about psychic teleportation.

      Finally, I have no idea what the point is of your comment. It doesn’t make any sense.

      • T-Mann

        I’ve read all your posts here, and I have concluded that you are a straight-up asshole. There is no explanation needed. It is as clear as virtue. You castigate yourself with each insensate and moronic word you say.

        I, for one, WON’T be praying for you. Why waste my time in an area where no hope exists?

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          ALL my posts here? Wow, I have written quite a bit so I am skeptical even of this claim. Second, if all you have are insults, then I guess you don’t have much. You certainly don’t have any evidence for your claims because if you did, you would have presented it.

          • Praise God

            You have nor have show us any evidence of your claims either…not that make any sense to us…..cause if you did, you would have presented it also.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            First, this post is about the Bible cure scam, not about disproving deities. I stated that before. Second, I don’t think I asserted any positive claims; just rejected your claims on insufficient evidence. If I have asserted a positive claim, then point it out to me and I will provide my reason and/or evidence. That fair and I’m not above criticism. However, since you admitted to being a troll, I have decided to delete any troll comments that don’t add to the conversation. I will not ban you completely nor will I delete all your comments. But troll comments are no longer acceptable from you… unless they amuse me in some way, of course. Before you go crying about censorship, you should keep in mind that almost every religious blog I read moderates their comments section in such a way that a comment must be approved before it is even posted and atheists comments are rarely ever approved no matter how polite the comment might be. So even my crack down on troll comments is more loose than pretty much any Christian blog.

          • Praise God

            When did i admit to being a troll? Oh, some of my comments are stinging a little if you had to delete them huh? I find that interesting and am very please by it. Thank you for not banning me completely. I feel so privileged now.

          • Praise God

            Obviously, by many peoples reaction of you and in the manner of the way you express yourself. Your not coming across the way you want to here Dangerous Talk. If you want people to take your seriously, you need to learn to speak with respect about peoples beliefs. Your pious know it all attitude is what turns people off towards you. Be more empathetic towards people….maybe you’ll get the same in return. If your going to continue to try and reach people this way…you might as well take this blog down…..your getting no where here!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            “Your pious know it all attitude” ROTFLMAO!!!

            You are the one who claims to know the truth with absolute certainty and is unwilling to even entertain the possibility that you could be wrong. You are the one who refuses to even read any other point of view or research any fact that refutes your position. You are the one who makes up assertions about people and claims they are facts. But I’m the “pious know it all.” Lol. Too funny.

            I’m the one who is open to the possibility that I could be wrong. I’m the one who reads and researched many different religions and different points of view. I’m the one who questions everything including my own assumptions. I’m the one who admits that I don’t have all the answers and that I enjoy researching to find answers… but I’m the “know it all.” Dude, you should do stand-up… and they say Christians have no sense of humor. lol.

          • Praise God

            You have no question mark after writing “I’m the pious know it all”….I’m glad you finally agree with me on something! Too Funny :)

      • Praise God

        Stupid? Nice!!!

  • John Harcrow Jr.

    Actually the video says page 859 so you were looking in the wrong place.

    • http://alittleitchy.blogspot.com/ brista

      Wouldn’t that depend on which Bible you have? Even if they’re all KJV, what if you have a large-print version? Or maybe one in a different language. Or a pocket bible versus the big giant ones they use in church services? Anyway this is clearly a hoax and preys on the ignorance of sick people.

      • COMALite J

        I came here to point that out. Thanks for beating me to it. There have been many different published editions of the KJV. While the actual text of the actual Bible books, chapters, and verses is the same (assuming all based on the 1769 text, which nearly all are), these versions usually have additional text as well: introductory pages, study guides, etc., that differs from version to version, and which of course would alter the page numbers that a particular passage would fall on. Also, the fonts and point size differ, which affects page flow and further alters the page number of specific passages.

        You can’t just mention a specific page number of the Bible without stating exactly which edition — which publisher, which year, which format (paperback, hardbound, pocket, coffee table, or these days eBook as well), etc. To make it unambiguous, provide the ISBN.

        This alone is proof that Mr. Brian Chambers is nothing but a scam artist, and thus obviously no Christian. If he truly believed, he wouldn’t dare to use what he honestly believed to be the Word of God to fleece rubes out of their money by preying on their health concerns, and in the process persuading them to ignore real medical care. I can’t think of too many more serious sins than using the Word of God for personal gain at the expense of others (heck, Peter told Simon Magus to basically “go to Hell and take your money with you” simply for seeking to purchase the power to bestow the Holy Spirit, and that wasn’t even hurting anybody!).

        This is independent of whether you believe Christianity at all to be true or not. Mr. Chambers is a scumbag scam artist either way. Staks Rosch aka @dangeroustalk:disqus is trying to warn people, including Christians, of this scam — not just to score points for atheism, but to warn all-too-gullible people of a dire threat to both their financial and their physiological well-being. He may be an atheist, but he’s doing a far more moral and dare I say it Christian thing than Mr. Chambers is.

        I found this ad in an Email from NewsMax. I thought my respect for them couldn’t sink any lower, but this is a new low even for them, that they would provide advertising for such a scam in the name of God and His Word.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      It’s called the Matthew 4 Protocol. I read all of Matthew 4. BTW, 4 and $ are the same key. That’s the secret scam code.

  • Dez

    I came across that site about the cure and had been listening for a while. It was taking too long to say what the cure was, so i googled it and found this site. I’m glad you said that they never say what it is..saved me some time. I’m still just as confused as when I first read the headline. I’m always curious and interested to hear creative theories though.

  • Hail Mary,,,,

    Give your life to GOD! He loves you so much!! Trust in him and forever be blessed~ Anything is possible with the Power of GOD! Praise be to the Power of the Holy Spirit! Amen~

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      He love s me sooooo much that if I don’t worship him he will torture me for all eternity? If that’s God’s “love” then no thanks! Oh and there is the whole… God is not real.

  • Don S

    Well, we have a different point of view about the Son of God, but I’d still want you you to be healed if I knew you had cancer. That’s just the Christ in me. But actually, I think the healing found in Mathew 4 has more to do with getting rid of glucose- sugar- from your body than anything else. Cancer cells thrive on the stuff. When you restrict your diet to non-sugared, non-glucosed foods you’re on the path to much better health.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      It’s not a point of view, it is a fact that God doesn’t exist and so there can’t be a son of God if God doesn’t exist. Second, why would you want someone with cancer to be healed? Why wouldn’t you just want them to die quickly so that they can go to Heaven with a minimal amount of suffering? Could you please point out the verse in Matthew Chapter 4 that mentions glucose? I would love to see it.

      • Doctor Mitch

        I’ve been reading this for about twenty minutes. You really a a nasty bit of dreck aren’t you? Go back and reread some of your posts and tell me you would have the balls to talk this way to somebody face to face. Especially if that somebody was a grown man and there were no witnesses around. I’m pretty sure I’m an agnostic, really more of an I-don’t-care-ist. I do however believe in courtesy and manners. And you have neither. I have a rule that I never put anything in writing that I wouldn’t have the guts to say to a defensive lineman. It puts a curb on any propensity I might have for cowardly unpleasantness. Have a good day Mr. Dangerous Talk. I’ll bet you are all Talk and not very Dangerous at all.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Wow, so you would threaten a defensive lineman? You got me. You have way ore balls than I do. Threats of physical violence don’t change the facts.

          • Doctror Mitch

            I didn’t threaten you. Reread what I wrote. And I was addressing your bad behaviour, not your so called facts.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I don’t know what “bad behavior” you are referring to. I don’t insult people nor do I threaten people with physical violence or eternal torture like some people do (hint, hint). Second, you implied that you would physically assault me if I criticized religion to your face and their were “no witnesses.” That my friend is a threat. Fortunately, it is pretty much an empty one, but I have gotten my fair share of real threats from Christian. So I do know the difference. Still, I think it is worth pointing out the threats that people make (even empty one) so that you realize how quick you to violence in the name of your religion of peace.

            In your previous comment you called me a “nasty bit of dreck.” I’m not even sure what that means, but name calling is not really very nice. If you think I have said something that is not true or mean, by all means call me out on it specifically and provide evidence for your objection. I am a very reasonable person and have been known to change my position of a variety of issues including the existence of a deity. But so far in this conversation, you have been the nasty one who has resorted to name calling and threats. Something to consider and think about. Just say’n.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Also, you should be aware of the Comment Policy of this blog (link at the top menu bar). You aren’t there yet, but you are getting close.

          • Praise God

            He only reads what he wants…..he forgets to address and read the rest of the points…..and he thinks he’s a good writer too. He’s put a lot of words in many other peoples mouths. He has a comprehension problem.

          • Praise God

            Where did he threaten you? He said “a grown man” he didn’t say that that was him? Read Dangerous Talk….learn to read! lol

  • Voice of reason

    Just curious, as a skeptic myself, did you find out what the cure is and try it or have an scientific research pointing either way? Just curious, as just saying god isn’t real and such is not proof either way, it is an opinion on religion. The website that was sent to me is remarkably similar to others that I have seen hawking survival techniques, so I am already skeptical. However, I admit I do not have evidence either way. I would be curious to see actual scientific evidence of this being a scam or having some sort of actual effectiveness. Wouldn’t that be more of a post that gives information rather than kicking the anthill over with Christians? Any evidence either way?

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Feel free to spend the $72 to find out what the magical cure is. But since no one has found an actual cure for Cancer, I’m going to side with bullshit. If this guy found an actual cure for cancer he was would super famous and super rich. Instead he is selling the cure online for $72 to a small niche market of fundamentalist religious believers who also believe in hidden Bible advice. Seems legit.

      All one really needs here is critical thinking skills and logic. We don’t need to test every ridiculous claim someone makes when critical thinking can easily expose such claims as bullshit.

  • Bill Bottoms

    I am a Christian and I am very skeptical about this “cure”. But that is not my point in writing. I wonder why most athiests who voice their beleifs seem to sound to angry and nasty. Christopher Hitchens, a wonderfully talented writer, could be so, so ugly and mean. No matter what proof is presented to these athiests, they continue to doubt. Short of standing face to face with the Beatific Vision, nothing will convince them. They would probably even doubt that. Calling it proof by anecdote or something equally obstinate. The athiest position is at its core materialist. If you grant them this first principle, they will always prevail in the argument because they will only accept that which conforms to their materialist standards of proof. That there is a reality not susceptible to empirical verification is, in fact, their tenet of faith. So don’t argue with them. Be kind to them as best you can. And pray for their conversion.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Wow! Why are you skeptical of this cure? Shouldn’t you have faith that it is true? Why are you so angry and nasty to those who believe this cure is real?

      Here is the thing, we have something called the scientific method and whether you realize it or not, you use it every day to help discover fact from fiction. You used it in this very comment when you claimed to be “very skeptical” about this cure. You are skeptical because it is an extraordinary claim that flies in the face of logic and reason. You are skeptical because it has all the hallmarks of a scam. You are skeptical because the website presents anecdotal evidence without any scientific backing and then rationalizes the lack of scientific backing as a “big pharma conspiracy.” You are right to be skeptical because we both know that this “cure” is bullshit.

      Do you know what else is bullshit? The original scam — Christianity! That’s the scam that tricks people into believing that they are evil, wretched sinners in need of redemption and then offers you the only cure for your imaginary disease — Jesus.

      I’m not angry, I’m embarrassed for you. Okay, I am a little bit angry. I’m angry that your faith-based thinking is ruining the world. It is a threat to human happiness, humans survival, and human progress. Pointing that out isn’t mean. One needs to diagnose the problem before it can be cured. What is mean is to push a religion that preaches that anyone who doesn’t share your beliefs will be and ought to be tortured for all eternity. That’s mean!!!!

      All I ask is for evidence of your claims. You claim not no evidence will satisfy me and that just isn’t true. Besides, an all-powerful God should be able to produce whatever evidence is needed and my standards are actually pretty low comparatively.

      So I will ask you to use the same skepticism that you have for this Biblical cancer cure on to your deity of choice. If faith is so awesome that it satisfies your belief in a deity, why does it not satisfy you when it comes to claims of a miracle cure for cancer and other ailments for the low, low, price of $72? Think about it.

      • Bill Bottoms

        You are a lot angry, not a little bit angry. Prayer could really help you with that.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Hilariously childish. So instead of addressing any of my actual points you assert that I must be “a lot angry” and call it a day. Well, I’ll be childish too and assert that if I’m a lot angry, you must be the most angry person in the world because you are angry times infinity, so there. lol.

          • Bill Bottoms

            Did the other boys pick on you a lot when you were in middle school? I’m curious about who hurt you so badly in your past that you are now so embittered. You really do come off as a very hateful and unhappy person. And I’m not the one who sounds childish. My tone has been pleasant. You sound like a walking tantrum to me. You seem to pour a lot of energy into your unbelief. That seems odd to me. In any event, I hope you find some peace in your life. And don’t waste your time writing a hateful response to this. I won’t be checking back.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, more hate and childishness. Surprise, surprise. I have asked you repeatedly to provide evidence for your claims and all you have done is wage personal attacks and call me the hateful one. Look in the mirror.

          • Praise God

            Wow, the exact same conversation with Bill…..don’t you get tired of typing the same things over and over? You must just have a copy button you can paste on many peoples responses! How repetitious for you….

          • Praise God

            Who’s calling who “childish” here? Interesting….

        • Praise God

          He’s more angry then knowledgeable about anything he writes.

    • JerryR

      Lets face it Hitchens believes in God now. Look Christians, YOU will never convince any atheist and should not be trying to convince anyone that God exists. Remember HE has to grant them faith.

      “So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.” http://biblehub.com/romans/9-18.htm

      If we really care about atheists, we would pray that God would grant them Mercy and we would demonstrate our faith by our lives. “”Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.” http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-16.htm

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        The really funny part of this comment is the projection. You see, it is really, really easy to convince me and most other atheists that your deity of choice is real. All you have to do is produce some valid evidence. That’s it. This is something that Bill Nye talked about in his recent debate with Ken Ham. Nye even listed several examples of evidence that would convince him.

        On the other hand, it seems that no amount of evidence will convince you that your faith is false and that your deity doesn’t exist. Not to worry though, I am confident that as you are exposed to more and more evidence, you will slowly begin to start having some doubts. Those doubts will cause you to start thinking critically about your beliefs and you will start researching the facts for yourself. Soon you will be going to church and feeling like you no longer fit in there. Hell, you may already be feeling this way. In time, you will come to the conclusion that your God is imaginary and this was all a scam.

        • JerryR

          God has given evidence of himself everywhere. And yes no amount of evidence will convince me otherwise. I too was once like you and did not believe. Let God answer for Himself.

          The Rich Man and Lazarus

          “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “The rich man answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ” – There is none so Blind as those that WILL not see.

          • JerryR

            It seems to me you live, you believe life has no purpose. The simple answer is if I am wrong, I have lost nothing, If you are wrong, you have lost everything

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            No, I know life does indeed have a purpose. Instead of telling me what your think I must believe, why don’t you actually ask me what I believe. I believe the purpose to life is a life of purpose. Each person is free to define their own purpose in life.

            Second, Pascal’s Wager is an extremely poor argument. You should probably Google that.

          • JerryR

            As if pascals wager mattered. “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” “For it is written:

            “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

            “Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.”

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Blah blah blah. Listen to yourself and then imagine a Muslim saying a similar thing to you about Allah or a Scientologist saying something similar about Xenu.

            There, now you see how ridiculous you sound.

            You should really believe in Xenu too, because if he is real, he will send millions of Theatans into your body. Oh, and shouldn’t you also believe in Allah (peace be upon him)? If you are wrong, he will really fuck you over after you die. The Koran says so. If you’re wrong, you will lose everything. Me, I’m not afraid to lose everything in every religion because they are all bullshit. You? you have already lost everything. You are wasting your one and only life.

            Jerry, live your life! enjoy your life. Make this world a better world for having you in it. Make the people in your life happy and you will feel happy also. Life is a movie and it i still time for you to enjoy the show.

          • Praise God

            To answer someone or respond to them with Blah, Blah, Blah is not condescending, “closed mined” and critical of their thoughts and beliefs? You really do not know how to carry on an adult written conversation with anyone do you? And as much as you use the word ridiculous to us……your comments are absolutely absurd to say the least to us. Remember, you use to believe and worship this God you currently disrespect and hate……somehow I think you still do.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Sorry, but you will have to show some evidence that “everywhere” was caused by God.

            Second, you have said it yourself, you are not an open-minded person. I on the other hand am open to all sorts of crazy possibilities — just not probabilities. Still, if you could present some kind of actual evidence for your deity of choice and that this evidence was indeed caused by your deity of choice, then I would gladly change my position again.

          • JerryR

            “But God’s angry displeasure erupts as acts of human mistrust and wrongdoing and lying accumulate, as people try to put a shroud over truth. But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can’t see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse. What happened was this: People knew God perfectly well, but when they didn’t treat him like God, refusing to worship him, they trivialized themselves into silliness and confusion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives. They pretended to know it all, but were illiterate regarding life. They traded the glory of God who holds the whole world in his hands for cheap figurines you can buy at any roadside stand.

            So God said, in effect, “If that’s what you want, that’s what you get.” It wasn’t long before they were living in a pigpen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. And all this because they traded the true God for a fake god, and worshiped the god they made instead of the God who made them—the God we bless, the God who blesses us. Oh, yes!

            Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn’t know how to be human either—women didn’t know how to be women, men didn’t know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men—all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it—emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches.

            Since they didn’t bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing. They made life hell on earth with their envy, wanton killing, bickering, and cheating. Look at them: mean-spirited, venomous, fork-tongued God-bashers. Bullies, swaggerers, insufferable windbags! They keep inventing new ways of wrecking lives. They ditch their parents when they get in the way. Stupid, slimy, cruel, cold-blooded. And it’s not as if they don’t know better. They know perfectly well they’re spitting in God’s face. And they don’t care—worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            What kind of deity demands worship? A petty and insecure deity. If that is the deity you are presenting, then he isn’t worth it. Worship is overrated. I think you are smart enough to know that Jerry. I have “faith” in you. Already you have doubts and that scares you to hell… literally. But I have great news for you Jerry; Hell is imaginary too.

            I don’t know everything, but I do know that any God that would allow or actively torture people for all eternity being they were skeptical of ridiculous claims on insufficient evidence is not the type of deity I would ever worship even if I believed he existed… which I don’t — because there is insufficient evidence!!!

            You’re better than that Jerry.

          • youmustgo

            People are everywhere. ALL people, collectively ARE what comprises the living God. Simple. And beautiful.

      • youmustgo

        There is no deity except the collective of ALL of us. Look in the face of any living soul. There is your proof of God. Good and evil. Right and wrong. The belief in the real, living, breathing God and the proof are everywhere. In every face. Every home, every school, church, lover and hater. When the collective learns to love one another more, we will see more of a benevolent God (power of all people, combined). When the collective is indifferent to one another more, we see more of a malevolent God. Right now we see indifference, and we see malevolence. If we figure out that we can love each other more than we love money and things, we’ll finally see a much better world. WE have power over it collectively, we just need to USE it. We’ve got to LOVE one ANOTHER!!!

    • youmustgo

      No one needs conversion. ALL need CONVERGENCE!!! They are wrong in some areas, and YOU are wrong in some areas. WE are ALL what makes up the true and mighty God! ALL of us together. Our collective consciousness IS God!!! Jesus is the embodiment of the love we are all to seek for one another. WE are to shine a light of love so bright in serving ALL our brothers and sisters, who are all the body of Christ, whether they know it or not, and show them the LOVE that is so missing in this world! Doesn’t matter what they call it; what matters is that they DO it! Love and serve one another in action and spirit, so that all may grow in the light and love, and none may suffer in the darkness, alone and frightened. My husband often says, the opposite of love is not hate; the opposite of love is indifference. Indifference is what keeps people from getting involved when witnessing a crime; indifference is what keeps people walking around the man on the street instead of looking him in the eye and saying, I see you, brother! I know so many people who go to church, and tout Jesus as “their” savior. But when I said to them, I’m hurting, I need you, they said, “pray to God, and good luck with that.” They did not understand that THEY were supposed to be my help. People have been BLIND! Atheists and others actually see it and live better by the 10 commandments than so-called Christians I know. I have seen signs of an awakening, though. An awakening that begins with the conversation and the opening of minds, hearts, souls. Thank you for being a part of the conversation.

  • JerryR
  • https://www.facebook.com/libertariandude FatLibertarianDude

    This is such a scam and anyone with an ability to perform critical thinking would also come to the same conclusion. Like the author of this post said, “How cruel is this guy? He claims to be able to cure cancer with a simple secret found on a single page of a book almost everyone has or has access too, but he’ll only give it to you if you sign up to his mailing list. In the meantime, you have to suffer and maybe even die. If this miracle cure is so simple that it can be found on one page of the Bible, then you should just come out and say what it is.”

    If a REAL Christian found a cure to such a devastating disease they would give out freely all the information needed. There would be no requirements. People, this so called “Mathew 4 Protocol” is a phishing scam meant to get you to sign up so they can harvest you contact information and sell it to other scammers and retailers.

    • youmustgo

      Yes, but what a conversation here! Shows that people WANT to believe. In each other, in cures, in a better life for all of us. God is ALL of us, collectively. Love is the answer. And Christians are blind to most of who and what God is. They exclude. Real godly people know ALL must be included. ALL must be served. ALL must be respected and given dignity and real intrinsic value. There are cures. There are ways for people to heal themselves and each other. But the love of money stands in the way. We overcome that, we will take our places as the rightful heirs of God’s great bounty. Which has nothing to do with money. It’s people. And it’s the earth. And it BELONGS to ALL of us, not just those with the most money. Time to topple them. Time to take our power as the collective and DO the GOOD the world is waiting for!!! II only wish I could know it would happen before I die of disease from so much exposure to the hatred of man for himself. SO, SO ready!!!

      • https://www.facebook.com/libertariandude FatLibertarianDude

        As I stated, “If a REAL Christian found a cure to such a devastating disease they would give out freely all the information needed”. REAL being the significant word.

        • youmustgo

          You are absolutely right about that. I agree 100%

  • Clarence

    God is Noticing

    God’s remedial
    judgments for the treatment of Israel.

    The Madrid Conference marked the
    beginning of the land for peace process with Israel.

    The conference opened on October 30,
    1991. “The Perfect Storm” which damaged Bushes home at
    Kennebunkport, Maine was on USA Today, side by side with the conference story
    on October 30, 1991.

    Round Six of the Bilateral Peace
    Talks

    Yitzak Rabin was elected prime
    minister of Israel in June of 1992. We
    immediately insisted that he come to Washington, DC and meet with Yasser
    Arafat. The day the meeting began,
    August 24, 1992, Hurricane Andrew slammed into Florida with winds reaching 177
    miles per hour. This was the most costly
    storm in America, to date.

    The Camp David Summit

    From July 11 through July 24,
    President Clinton hosted a summit conference between Israel and the Palestinian
    Authority. Clinton pressured Israeli
    Prime Minister Ehud Barak to surrender the heartland of Israel. During these precise dates, a major heat wave
    struck the South Central U.S. and fires broke out in our Western States. At one point, there were over 50 active fires
    that consumed over 500,000 acres before the end of the month.

    White House Ramadan Celebration

    On Thursday, the evening of November
    7, 2002, President Bush hosted a dinner at the White House to honor the Muslim
    religious holiday called Ramadan. In his
    speech that evening, the President said:

    “This season commemorates the
    revelation of God’s Word in the holy Koran to the prophet Muhammad. Today, this word inspires faithful Muslims to
    lead lives of honesty, integrity and passion.

    We see in Islam a religion that
    traces its origins back to God’s call to Abraham…”

    2 Days later, a total of 88 tornadoes
    hit Arkansas, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

    The Middle East Peace Plan

    On April 30, 2003, U.S. Ambassador
    Daniel Kurtzer presented the “Road Map” peace plan to Israeli Prime Minister
    Ariel Sharon. It was a plan formulated
    by an ungodly coalition called “the quartet”.
    This group was made up of Russia, the European Union, the United Nations
    and the U.S. On May 4th
    Secretary Colin Powell met with terrorist leader Hafez Asad of Syria and made a
    commitment to him to include the surrender of the Golan Heights in the peace
    plan. That day, a swarm of tornados
    began tearing apart the Central U.S. Over the next 7 days, there were a total of
    412 tornados-the largest cluster ever observed by NOAA since it began its
    record keeping in 1950.

    The
    Gaza Withdrawal

    The
    most chaotic event in modern day Israel was the forced withdrawal of all Jews
    from Gaza that occurred during the late summer of 2005. It began August 7th and continued
    through the 22nd. Nearly 9000
    Israelis were uprooted from their land and homes. Many had been in the area for as long as 35
    years.

    It
    was a heart wrenching event to watch women and children manhandled, synagogues
    violated, Torah scrolls desecrated, houses bulldozed, graves dug up, and farms
    destroyed. Entire Jewish communities
    were forcibly removed from land which God had given to the Jewish people as an
    everlasting possession (Psalm 105:8-11)

    The
    economic impact on the Israeli economy was overwhelming. The farms in Gaza represented 70% of Israel’s
    organic produce, 60% of the nation’s exported herbs, 15% of its total
    agricultural exports, 60% of its exported cherry tomato crop and $120 million
    of its flower exports.

    And
    while the travesty was taking place, Secretary Condoleeza Rice began applying
    more pressure with the following statement: “Everyone empathizes what
    the Israelis are facing…but it cannot be Gaza only.”

    The
    withdrawal ended on August 22nd and on the very next day, the
    government of Bermuda announced that a tropical depression had formed off its
    coast, Dubbed Katrina. The storm quickly
    developed into the most powerful storm in modern history.

    I
    recently discovered that the day Katrina hit New Orleans, the world’s largest
    gay parade was organized for New Orleans.
    Katrina is a German name meaning “pure chaste”. Chaste means to abstain from all sexual
    activity.

    It
    is estimated that the same number of people that were displaced from Gaza were
    displaced in New Orleans by Katrina.

    When Japan gave its strongest
    condemnation of the country of Israel to the world publicly. On that day, they had the strongest
    earthquake and tsunami in recent history.
    The problem there continues.

    Obama told Netanyahu they would have
    to go back to their original borders the summer of 2011. When the news leaked out, before Obama told
    Netanyahu, tornadoes struck the United States.
    When he told Netanyahu, tornadoes broke out again 2 days later
    destroying half of Joplin Missouri.

    On the last visit from Netanyahu, tornadoes
    again hit the US, some in the same exact places. We, the public, don’t know what was discussed
    in that meeting.

    Exactly
    7 years after Katrina, another storm came almost through
    the exact path to hit New Orleans. The
    name was Isaac. Christians know, Isaac
    is a type of Christ. Isaac took the same
    path as Katrina, once in the Gulf of Mexico.
    It came onshore 2 times. I would
    call that a double witness.

    I believe God is now going full
    circle in His remedial judgments. A
    storm was brewing off the coast of Florida called Sandy. It hit the US near our National Capitol on
    October 30th, exactly 21 years from the first remedial judgment. It is called “The Perfect Storm” at first but the name was changed.

    On November 23rd 2013,
    America joined Russian and Iran and gave up their role as protector of Israel. This is the worst thing America has done
    since Israel became a state.

    There was no judgement!

    I believe God has removed his hand of
    protection from America.

    Odds of this being by chance:

    7665 X 3041 X 869 X
    869 X 869 X 912,500 X 1258 X 869

    912,500 X 7665=1.08
    X 10 to the 38th power

    That, my brothers
    and sisters, is a God number….

    This is a conservation assessment of
    the number

    Science considers 10 to the 50th
    power impossible.

  • Chuck Bump

    My fellow Christians: Don’t waste your time and sanity trying to argue with atheists. As the Bible says, just kick the dust off your sandels and move on. You can’t win by proof, because it is by faith that we are saved. I’m college educated in Chemstry but accept the Bible’s account of Creation because I believe and have faith. If God chooses to work a miracle in an atheist,s life, and he recognizes it, maybe he’ll come around. They mocked Christ all the way to the Cross and never believed. Consider it as being in good company when they mock us!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      1. I did believe in God at one point. I’m better now.
      2. I don’t mock religious believers. I do mock ridiculous beliefs.

      • youmustgo

        Religion is man-made. God is man, the collective.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          A friend of mine in Grad School came up with the idea of a Democratic God. This thesis was pretty weak but I understand why the need for such a God-reboot was necessary for Christians. The God of the Bible was a feudal lord and a tyrant. Humanity has learned that is a poor form a government.

          • youmustgo

            The God of the Bible was reflective of how barbaric men were to each other. Do you not see we live today in a mixed up world of people still feuding today? Nothing has changed, really in over 2000 years. The only thing that will change that is if more people come into power who can influence man’s law for the good of ALL people. Not just one group, sect, color, sexual orientation, in good health, etc. Better yet, if each individual decides to be the example, and shine their light on their own friends, neighbors, those who hurt, and suffer. Just telling someone else that they are valuable and being kind to them may make all the difference. The world in which we live constantly tells people they have no value, and they are thrown away and forgotten. Someone somewhere showing them love can mean the difference between life and death for them. So-called Christians say we need prayer in schools, that we’ve removed God from our country and that’s what’s wrong! Hogwash. God is supposed to shine through us; through our works. I tell you now I know many other godly people who are atheists than those who tout and preach and use him as a weapon against those who deserve love and care the most.

          • youmustgo

            I’m not a Christian, and I didn’t reboot God. I just understand the Bible. The Old Testament was to show a God (of the collective of the human spirit) who was capable of malevolence, or benevolence. The story of Jesus – the way of trying to get people to be loving toward one another regardless. It’s a good idea whether you believe they really exist or not.

      • Praise God

        NO, you very much mock the religious believer. You have numerous times here. You just chose not to believe that you do. You’ve tried to belittle many of us with your condescending parables and remarks. Reread them Dangerous Talk….ALL of them, with an open mind. I think you’ll rethink this. Again, this will always be turned around to your ridiculous beliefs also. Two way street…always. I’m sure your probably not better now…..you’ve just lost your way.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Says the self-professed close-minded person with reading comprehension problems. You seem really angry now, BTW. I thought you didn’t care. You sure spend a lot of time responding to something you don’t care about. I think you care more than you claim and I think you have more doubts about your own beliefs than you are letting on.

          • Praise God

            Wow, now this entire little post can be completely turn around. I feel exactly the same way about you…..you made this one REALLY easy for me….Thanks This is u in a nutshell….and u said it all yourself

        • Tim Tian

          You know how much it will help your case if you just provide one example. You don’t provide an example. I wonder what this says for your case.

    • youmustgo

      Chuck – I am proof. I am living proof. And Christians have it WRONG! If ALL do not band together, love one another, accept one another, and serve one another, we will all remain in limbo forever. We all must see our way to one another, and STOP judging! Please consider the idea that the miracle must include you, as well. We are ALL the body of Christ. ALL, not just those who claim Him. Once you figure that out, and let go of the notion that you or anyone else is charged with changing their minds, rather than just loving every other person – we are charged with loving and praying even for our enemies! Loving our neighbors. DO these things, love them in deed, service, thought and word, miracles can happen. EVERY person is important. Every soul is waiting to be loved, in a language THEY can understand. Many are hurting, and suffer greatly, and NEED love, not judgment, not indifference, not to be preached at or told how they should be. We are all to do like in Matthew 25, as that which we do unto the “least of these,” we do unto the Lord. Would we preach at the Lord? Would we dust off our sandles and walk away? Or would we tend to him, love him, care for him, value him? Please consider my words.

  • lanakate1444

    I ran across your article critiquing the Matthew chapter 4 protocol while I was researching about how different teas can help with your health. I am very glad to have run across it. Don’t criticize me on spelling or writing, cause sometimes its hard for me to get my thoughts together to prove a point on paper. My grammar can be pretty bad as well. Anyway, I have read Matthew chapter 4, as well as a most of the other books in the bible, and have come to the conclusion that the only “code” that could possibly be stated as a cure for cancer in this chapter is not something that can be done yourself. It talks about sickness and disease and healing, but it also mentions that Jesus is the one who went from town to town healing people. Jesus was the one who fasted for 40 days and 40 nights and resisted the temptation from the devil himself. This response is not to judge you on what you believe(or rather don’t believe), tell you you’re prideful, or shove my beliefs down your throat, but simply to discuss the claim that the man who wrote the article has made about a cure for cancer. It is not something you can do on your own based on what Matthew chapter 4 states. Jesus is the healer.

    I’d really like to have an eye to eye discussion with you on many other things about Christianity without one person feeling as if they are better than the other. If i may move into another thought aside from the article above i would greatly appreciate your brains attention. Many christians today can be so hypocritical, judgmental, unloving, prideful and so many more things, and then they expect everyone to want to be a christian. Well, thats not how it works. If i didn’t know my God and who He is to me, i wouldn’t want to be a christian either. No matter your beliefs, we as Christians are supposed to accept you for who you are and love you no matter what. I am a christian, haha as you can see, and i am no better in God’s eyes than some guy over in china selling drugs. He created us all and loves us all the same. Whenever he made us, he gave us a choice to choose him. I mean think about it, if you made a world of people and you forced them all to love you and obey your every command it wouldn’t be very fun would it? So he gave us a choice, between life or death. But the reason one of the choices is death is not because he’s cruel and wants any of us to die or suffer, He wants to see us live forever at His right hand in heaven, buuuuuut Lucifer (if thats how you spell Satans real name), one of Gods angels, who also have a choice, decided he was just as good as God was and challenged God to possession of the world and all the people in it. So God gave him the chance to try and prove himself. Satan brought in all the sickness, destruction, lying, hate, anger, lust, cheating, pride, shame, guilt, and everything in this world that is bad. Satan is the ultimate evil and he wants us to choose him and be cast into hell and suffer with him for eternity. He knows he can’t beat God, because alas he’s already been beaten when Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and ROSE again after 3 days! So no matter what happens satan is gonna be cast into hell for trying to ruin Gods world. But while this earth is still here and we are all still alive, Satan has every right to bring down as many people as he can with him. So lets go back to the two choices we have, life or death. Jesus is life, and no Jesus is death. simple as that. in my mind. I know to others its much more complicated and all these thoughts of doubt and ridicule fill your head, but in my opinion, its Satan who is trying to drag you down to hell with him. All the things on this earth are so wonderful and the things you can see and feel are so easy to trust, but the gift of life for eternity without pain and suffering is so much more appealing than temporary happiness that leads to physical and spiritual death. I guess all i really want you to get out of this book I’ve written you, is that not all christians are the same judgmental, holier-than-thou, goody-two-shoes. Some are filled with love and compassion for all people! Don’t take this as criticism to your way of life, but i have taken this opportunity to share the gospel so whoever may come across your page just might see it! Thank you for this opportunity!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      That’s certainly an interesting story, but it isn’t the one in the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that God was the source of all good and all evil. The Bible makes it clear that God is the one who orders the genocide and suffering of others all for his own vanity. Plus, logically, if God could prevent people for being tortured for all eternity, then he should do that instead of allowing most of the world to be eternally tortured in Hell by his inaction. Why is God so vain that he demands people worship him anyway? And why has he provided zero evidence that he even exists? That seems like a pretty poor plan for an all-knowing deity, don’t you think? Personally friend, I think you could do a much better job as God than the assclown character from the Bible. Think about it.

      • lanakate1444

        I will have to do some research in the bible to find out about who is the root of evil, but in the end it still comes down to the fact that we have a choice to set our paths the way we want them taken, or to follow God on His path that he ordained for us! If someone completely turns their head on Gods will for their life and does so much wrong to others like lying, cheating, killing, ect., then the only thing to stop them is their own conscience that we were created with because they are no longer listening to God!
        As for your other question about why God is so vain that he wants us to worship him, let me ask you, if you had created an entire world in your own image, wouldn’t you want their praise and glory for simply putting them into existence?
        And lastly, your question about where is the evidence that God is real! I’m sure that this is your go to question and your foundation for not believing God really exists! I can see God everywhere, not in physical form, however! God is evident in nature, in astrology, in biology, in anatomy! And taking a closer look at the subject of anatomy, have you ever seen a picture of a ligament in our body called laminin? It is a ligament that is all over our body practically holding us together, and it is shaped like a cross! I want to encourage you to just google a picture of that, it’s pretty cool even if you don’t believe what Jesus did for us on the cross! I don’t believe that the smartest man to ever live could have created this world and all of the intricate details in every living organism and substance!
        Another place that God is evident to me, is in my heart! I believe strongly in the power of prayer, and I can feel his comforting hand around me when I am in time of need and I simply pray and ask him for his comfort! I have heard many stories of people praying to God and he doesn’t answer them, but truthfully, it’s not that he isn’t answering your prayers, but that he doesn’t hear them! I wish I knew references in the bible to back up this point as well as all the other things I’ve said, but somewhere in the bible it says that God does not hear the prayers of unbelievers! you cant see demons or angels, but the battles they go through everyday for us would scare the crap out of us if we could see them! There is a spiritual realm out there where the demons and the angels reside, where you can see prayer! There is a guy that was dedicated to satan at birth, and he lived his whole life up until he was a certain age, doing the deeds of satan and turning people away from God and attacking churches with pride and doubt! I want to encourage you to google that story also! Even if you believe it’s fiction, it’s still a pretty interesting story!

        And one last thing for this post, I wanna say that I admire you for your passion in whatever it is that you are doing here on this page! I’m not sure why you argue the existence of God so strongly, but whatever the reason may be, I wish I had as much of a drive to argue my beliefs as much as you do! Because I don’t typically chime in to these kinds of posts! But I want to thank you again for the opportunity!
        Now I would like the chance to ask you about something you believe! If I may.
        But how to you believe the world was created?

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          1. Wait, do you mean to tell me that you didn’t know that the Bible says that God created all things good and evil? You? A Christian? An atheist had to educate a Christian on what the Bible says. Weird.

          2. Are you claiming that I am a liar, cheater, and killer? No, no, no. I’m a pretty decent guy. My choice is to continue to be a decent guy and follow the dictates of your imaginary tyrant who commands that I treat people horribly. The fact is that according to the Bible there is really only one crime punishable by eternal torture and that crime is not worshipping God.

          3. You asked, “if you had created an entire world in your own image, wouldn’t you want their praise and glory for simply putting them into existence?” NO! Of course not. I’m not a vain assclown. My wife and I made two bueatiful children and we don’t demand that they worship us under the threat of torture. Do you demand that your children worship you under the threat of torture? Because if you do, I need to call social services on your ass. That shit just aint right.

          4. You claim that God is evident in nature, but not only do you have no evidence for this, you have no real reason to believe it is true either. How do you know YOUR God created nature? Maybe it was Zeus of Oden? Did you know that Oden said that he defeated all the Frost Giants. You don’t see any Frost Giants around, do you? Let’s face facts here. If someone told you to believe in Oden based on that evidence, you would laugh in their face… and rightfully so. Science has discovered solid evidence for why certain things work in nature and those discoveries have nothing to do with any deities. Sure, there are things that science hasn’t been able to explain yet, but that doesn’t mean that your ridiculous answer is true. I have no problem admitting that there are things about the universe that we as human beings simply don’t know. Why does the unknown scare you so much?

          5. Holy shit, there is something somewhere that is shaped like a very basic symbol. Maybe if Christians decided to use a more complex symbol to represent their beliefs, finding such a symbol in nature would be more impressive but two perpendicular lines just doesn’t cut it.

          6. As a point of fact, every study on the power of prayer has come back showing that prayer basically doesn’t work. Prayer is just a really good illusion. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

          7. Why do I care about religion? Well, you need look no further than this blog post in which I am exposing a guy who is basically a con artist riping people off when they are in pain. His tool is religion. He claims that he can cure you of cancer and many other diseases using the Bible. He’ll give you that cure absolutely free… if you sign up for his $72 newsletter. If you would like to understand my reasoning past this one example, I encourage you to check out my Atheism 101 section at the top of the page. There is an article there that addresses this very question.

          8. Where did the world come from? I have an article on that in the Atheism 101 section also. The Big Bang theory is pretty solid. We have a lot of evidence confirming this theory and so I feel pretty confident in claiming that the Big Bang started this universe and the world formed as a result of that.

          • lanakate1444

            I don’t know everything the bible says, no, but I didn’t say that God didn’t create what is, but he’s not the root of evil! God has already proven himself to you, you just are not listening! So there is no way that I, or any other person will be able to prove it to you!

          • youmustgo

            The love of money is the root of all evil. You can see it all around you. In the additives in the food we eat, to the poisons sprayed all around us, in the toxins that up our risk of disease and destroy our immune systems. God is ALL of us. Combined. One big collective. So if more of us love money more, it shows. If more of us loved God more, we’d love each other more and care about each others’ health, welfare, happiness, and well-being. If each person who has something cared about one other person, served them, and let them know they are valuable, they are important, and loved because they are alive, we’d have a much more loving world and we’d finally have peace. It’s so simple, so many people miss it. But it’s making itself clear because beginning now is when the meek truly shall inherit the earth. NOT those who believe they are going to heaven; those people have been blind and only have eyes to see for themselves that they will go. The light of the world is ALL of us, but we can only shine that light if we can see it for what it is. Something to share with ALL. Not to preach at others about. Not to get them to see the errors of their ways, but to get all to see how wonderful love and service to one another can be. It will bring peace. One day, when ALL get the right message. We are charged with BEING the example. Something atheists have a MUCH BETTER grasp on living out than so-called Christians do. My words will sound like babbling to those who are not meant to hear. But will ring true to those who are. Fact or fiction, it does not matter. The truth lies in the action. Good or evil, it is up to each and every individual to decide.

          • lanakate1444

            Also I am not a judgemental person having gone through so much judgement and rejection myself! I don’t know who you are, what you look like, or how old you are, and I am not about to say who I think you are! I was just talking about unbelievers in general! The devil is who tempts you into those things! Everybody is a sinner, even me! But that’s why Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins! Every single one of our sins have already been forgiven, but in order to be freed from the shackles of sin, and have the power to stay away from them, you must rely on Jesus Christ to shine a light on the path of Gods will for you!

      • youmustgo

        God is the source of good and evil. Because God is the collective of all the souls who live and breathe. If they espouse more evil, more evil prevails. If they espouse more good, more good prevails. God does not demand anyone worship him. He demands all people serve and love ONE ANOTHER. If they do that, peace will reign over the whole world. There is no all-knowing deity, except for the one of power formulated from the love of everyman for everyman. Just like in our voting, everything is so close all the time, because a majority of the voters are evenly split, between swaying the country toward good… or evil. And the evil lie to us all because it’s in their best interests to lie and get us to believe them. God is the collective. Jesus is the embodiment of love, the example of what we should strive to be like. The antichrist is the results of the love of money and judgments placed on one man by another, instead of serving and unconditionally loving one another, as they should want to do. For peace to reign. Please think about it.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Someone hasn’t read their Bible.

          • youmustgo

            On the contrary, I’ve lived through hell and am trying to bring myself out of it. Those who truly seek out of a need for definitive answers will get them if they do so with pure intentions. It doesn’t matter to me whether you believe me or not. It’s mine to share the good news so many have sadly and sorely missed because of selfishness. The same selfishness that led you to become an atheist in the first place. Do you believe in kindness, brotherly love, neighbor helping neighbor, that all deserve to live in dignity and peace? If so, then you are a bigger believer than most of the so-called Christians I know. I won’t say I’m one of them, because they are more blind than any and cannot see. Have a good day, and because of their hateful views, they chase people away instead of showing them Who God is. Have a good day, thank you for the forum.

          • Praise God

            Yes, and I think we ALL know who….

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yeah, Christians. lol.

          • Praise God

            Your reaching again………c-mon now. lol

          • youmustgo

            I’ve read it… and I understand the deeper meaning. I only wish everyone would. I was the unlikeliest candidate for believing such things. But then tragedy struck and I was so low, I nearly committed suicide. The only thing that saved me was seeking in the Bible and coming to these new understandings. It’s only been about 14 months but I believe my take on it is a good one. It’s OK if you don’t agree, I just put in my food for thought. <3

    • youmustgo

      To me, the bible is stories to tell us as it states, it is what was, what is, and what shall be. It tells us stories to show us that the issues 2000 years ago were similar to those today, if we pay attention. The messages of what we’re supposed to do, be and pay attention to are so simple, most people miss them. It can be summed up in one word: love. What’s so sad is, the atheists, humanists, etc., have it more right in practice than do the so-called Christians. They tout kindness, love, friendship, moral support, empathy, etc. If all were to espouse these things, along with the rules of the 10 commandments, there would be peace in this world and such happiness. We are all charged with loving one another. If we do that simple thing; unconditionally, we can help one another. Not with money, but with our actions, time, empathy, and moral support. The homeless man on the street only needs one person, one person, who owns a business to see past his inability to care for himself. And give him a job, a small paycheck, and a temporary place to live. Instead, that business owner chooses to walk on by, and buys himself a trinket of some sort, “earned” off the backs of those that serve him, instead of giving back to this man. GOD IS all of us. Together. Souls acting on the part of the betterment of the lives of … all of us, together. Jesus is the embodiment of that love. Pure. Beautiful. Meek. Mild. We are all to serve one another. I believe other doctrines’ deeper meaning will come to light as well, to the people who espouse them. ALL people who are borne of this Earth are precious. If we began valuing them as our most precious resources, instead of things and money, we’d see quite a new world order emerge. The Bible says the meek shall inherit the earth. That’s so we may all overcome the damages wrought by the love of money. Which creates such an evil, toxic, & damaging atmosphere. It’s up to us to clean it up and reverse it. That includes cancers, diseases, and the diseases of hate, and even indifference. ANY who turns away the “least of these” spits in the eye of the love of ALL of us. I can see it as clear as day. Whether you believe it’s just a story, or it really happened, I cannot wait for the day ALL can see it as clearly as I do. It’s beautiful. Peace.

  • freyr

    Hello Mr. Dangerous Talk

    Interesting article and thank you for all that you do. While I am not an Atheist, I am something that they usually view as more dangerous, a practicing heathen of the Asatru faith. That being said I believe in most atheistic precepts. I hold the view of Gods and Heroes that Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung did, that they are arch-types created by religious people that try to teach people how they should live morally. I believe in Asatru because it is the faith of my Norse and Germanic Ancestors and if I want to pick a superstition to believe in I might as well be able to pick my own superstition. I also believe because I respect the nine noble virtues that we live by and find at my workplace that I am one of the few people that industriousness is actually a religious belief and practice, along with courage, treating people fairly, truth…etc. Also most Heathens do not treat Gods as people to be worshipped, but rather treat them as Heroes to live up to and friends that provide guidance by example. Another precept of Asatru is that Talk is cheap, We are our Deeds, so we cherish right action over supposed right “words” and take a very dim view of Evangelicals and others that preach right and wrong, rather then simply living the right way and leading by example.

    I try to explain to Bible believers sometimes that all Gods, including the Judeo-Christianity Islamic ones were once tribal Gods, that it made those tribes feel superior and gave them less problems sleeping and night raping, pillaging and murdering the neighbors to proclaim their God as the right God. Yahweh was a Phonecian Caananite Volcano God, thus his relationship to the long extinct volcano Mt. Sinai, and his propensity to destroy cities with fire and brimstone including Sodom and Gomorrah. He used to have a wife named Aserah, before the Rabbis started hating women, whose symbol was what the Minorrah was modeled after, who now is only the Holy Spirit in Jewish and Christian Faiths. Allah was a Lunar diety, which is the reason why most Islamic nations have a crescent moon on their flag and the reason why they worship a big chunk of meteor in their temple at Mecca.
    I also have tried to explain to them that every single major religion on this planet has had a scripture of some sort, which was a times considered as holy as their Bible. Even my religion has the Sagas and the Eddas that we draw our inspiration about right and heroic living from.

    Also attempts have been made to show them to mistranslations in that Bible, most prompted by the hatred and bigotries of the people that were the translators at the time. I also try to tell them the while Yeshu Bin Nazret probably did exist he was almost certainly not the person that the Bible proclaimed him to be as Talmudic descriptions of him state he had only 5 apostles(its thought that it was change to 12 to make the Greek Astrological Holy number of 13 including him and his 12 apostles) and he was stoned to death for Sorcery 156 years before he was allegedly born. Also the original New Testament gathered by Marcion the Gnostic(possibly the fabled Mark) only contained one Gospel(the Gospel of the Lord, sometimes called the Q Gospel and 11 other Books) when gathered in 168 C.E.. All the others were either borrowed from other religions(like the Letters of Paul or as he was better known in the ancient world as a disciple of Dionysus Apollonius the Greek which is why he never mentions Jesus by name, only calls him Christ), a fully fabricated (such as the other Gospels), at the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine, when he was trying to build a fanatical religion, known thereafter as Catholicism, which would make the Roman Empire ‘eternal’(thus the idea of the Holy Roman Empire was born).

    But anyways as the above can attest you get the idea that most people know more about Christianity and the origins of it than Christians do, because they have not chosen to educate themselves. If more of us knew about the hatred, bigotry, genocide and pure evil that Christianity was based of, we would not think of it as a Religion of peace anymore than Westerners believe Islam is a Religion of peace right now.

  • Paul Williams

    You will believe what you want to believe but it is not OK to ridicule others for what they believe. Both of you are wasting time and energy on a topic that no one has definitive proof of. You only serve yourselves bantering back and forth about it.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      *facepalm* No, I won’t believe what I want to believe. I will believe that the evidence suggests is true regardless of what my wants are. Second, I agree with you that it is not okay to ridicule other people for what they believe no matter how ridiculous their beliefs might be. But I do ask you not to be a hypocrite on this point (which you haven’t to my knowledge), and to defend people like Tom Cruise when you hear others make fun of him for his belief in Xenu. I will of course ridiculous Tom Cruise’s belief in Xenu, but I will defend Tom Cruise and anyone else from being ridiculed personally for their beliefs. Beliefs are open to ridicule; people are not.

      • Paul Williams

        The fact is you can not prove that there is or is not a God. Oh and by way, there is proof of evolution, there is no definitive proof of human evolution, only speculation. We still have not and maybe ever will, find the missing link. So.. Have you found out something the rest of us haven’t?

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          There is no prove that there is or is not a Santa Claus either, so does that mean that you still believe Santa Claus exists until you are shown “proof” that he doesn’t?

          There is no proof that evolution is true and no one claimed their was. But there is ridiculously strong evidence that it is true. There is more evidence for evolution via. natural selection than there is for the theory of gravity. Something to consider.

          The “missing link?” All fossils are transitional fossils. Every fossil is the missing link. You clearly no zero about evolution. I suggest you spend a little time on Google. Wikipedia might help too.

          • Paul Williams

            Who is to say that evolution is not God’s plan? So the argument that god did not create man, man evolved, falls on deaf ears with me.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Again, no one said that evolution can’t be part of God’s plan (except maybe Christians). So you are addressing a point that was not made instead of addressing the points that were made. As a point of fact, the evidence for evolution is off the charts and that is why the theory of evolution is generally considered a fact. The Vatican admits this and so do many Christians. You were the one who claimed that it can’t be “proven” and that we need to find some “missing link.” I have shown you that your view of evolution is incorrect and instead of thanking me for correcting you, you attempt to argue a point no one made. Your pride blinds you. Isn’t that supposed to be a sin or something?

          • Praise God

            Now it’s Santa Claus? Really?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yes, really. It is an analogy. *facepalm*

          • Praise God

            Very weak one……

      • Praise God

        You contradict yourself here. You say you will not ridicule people for their beliefs….and then end the sentence with “NO MATTER HOW RIDICULOUS THEIR BELIEFS MIGHT BE”! Your unbelievable….you really are! You in fact are the hypocrite here. So why not turn this all around and defend us all that you’ve consistently ridiculed and attacked all of us for our beliefs. You have that’s it….you can try and deny it as much as you want. Beliefs are only practiced BY PEOPLE Dangerous Talk. Not plants, animals, etc. So when you ridicule one…..you ridicule the other……no matter what!!! You are a spinning top…going nowhere….

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          I said that certain beliefs are ridiculous. I did not say that people are ridiculous. That’s not a contradiction. You even quoted me and your still misrepresented what I said. A piece of friendly advice: Get some help with your reading comprehension skills.

          • Praise God

            I would like to ask you to do the same. Your comprehension skills are terrible. Who’s attacking who now? Did I hit a nerve? When you tell people their beliefs are ridiculous…your telling them they are too Period!!! Learn and know this….it might help you convert more souls.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            My reading comprehension may be an issue. The way I read what you said was that you are claiming that if I criticize someone’s beliefs I am attacking them as a person. Is that what you are claiming? If it is, then my reading comprehension is just fine.

            I don’t agree with you that criticizing someone’s beliefs is a personal attack on the person and I stated why.

  • Ruwach

    Hey Man! I had trouble sleeping, but after listening to only 40% of this excruciatingly boring dribble and secret mumbo jumbo I almost nodded off. …Get to the point…set the hook…and get an honest job….
    Well, I made it through to the end. And guess what? This predator walks like a duck and he quacks like a duck. He must be a duck. QUACK! What a way to make a buck…. Desperate people’s illnesses and inappropriate touting of Scripture, that’s a mix worth of the Simon the Magician award.

  • VeryGrateful

    cancer survior here, i did not fast for 40 days, though i smoke and eat a lot of cannabis, Dr. recommend..Still alive and enjoying live

  • LIDOBEACHGAL

    You are just using this as another platform to push your atheist views. I know people first hand that have been cured of cancer and other diseases from fasting and juicing whether it is in the Bible or not. There are natural cures for most diseases but the doctors would not make any money if they suggested it. An example was one of my husband’s clients that did a gall bladder cleanse that we suggested. He passes out 22 gall stones and showed them to his doctor. He then asked the doctor if he (the doctor) knew about the cleanse and he said yes. Well, then why do you think that he (the doctor) did not tell him. You guessed it MONEY!!! IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!

    • youmustgo

      You’re right!

  • dan

    please ppl do not engage those that do not believe, please just pray for them. may god bless all

  • DebNvest

    That RECALL NOTICE down below (A FEW DAYS AGO) sure proves that it’s really the Christians who think they are better than Athiests, not the other way around. I saw a few accusations here about how Athiests supposedly think they are better than Christians because of their “facts”. LOL! That has never been the case, we are merely sad for our fellow man (friends, relatives) who are brainwashed by this mass delusion. And we hope that we can somehow get thru to some of them by way of reasoning – researching all the ins and outs….

    …and yes, even researching the bible itself! The bible itself is proof enough that it’s not inspired of God. The sad truth is that Athiests tend to know more about the bible than many Christians do. I know, I used to be a devout Christian until a few years ago when I started reading the bible from beginning to end as an adult. I am so glad I did – my eyes are wide open now! I genuinely hope you can too.

    Don’t believe me? Check out evilbible dot com for all the proof you can possibly handle that Christianity is based on nothing more than fables – and nobody can dispute it….not even YOU. If you are so sure of your faith that nothing can shake it, then you shouldn’t have any fear going over there to read – mostly all direct scriptures from the bible.

  • DebNvest

    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320x240q90/829/8scu.jpg

    [URL=https://imageshack.com/i/n18scuj][IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/320x240q90/829/8scu.jpg][/IMG][/URL]

  • 11111111

    This bantering is laughable. People can choose to believe in God, or not to believe in God. Key word: believe. They are still only beliefs based on our limited human understanding of the universe. The only certain thing in life is its uncertainties, arguably meaning, that everything is a belief! You should not try to pawn your beliefs off on others or change their beliefs, that’s for them to handle , whether you’re an atheist or a theist. Let it be known in your mind that people are the way they are because that’s the way they are. It’s so simple I love it!!!
    Now for the article, it is “proven” that cancer cells can be starved off from not eating carbs like glucose. Evidently, cancer cells have evolved to only be able to survive on these types of carbs. You can interpret the Bible the way you want, but I tend to lean towards a non literal interpretation, meaning that this doesn’t mean to starve yourself for 40 days. Scientifically, that’s impossible. I believe it means that by not eating the most common foods (bread, pasta etc) that’s your cure.
    That’s all I have to say. Peace be with you.

    • Praise God

      Not as far as Dangerous Talk is concerned. People who believe in GOD are ridiculous and should never choose to believe in Him. And he will be as condescending and twist your words as much as he needs to….to try and convince you of this.

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        Talk about putting words in my mouth. No, not at all. Just because someone believes in ridiculous beliefs, doesn’t mean they are ridiculous people. No, people get indoctrinated into religion when we are very young. Before we can even think for ourselves we are told the “truth” of religion. I don’t blame people for being indoctrinated. I was indoctrinated too. So of course we are going to choose religion. We really didn’t have a choice in that. Religion is a system of belief which dominates the world and imprints itself on us when we are most vulnerable. We become religious when we are tiny children or when we are in an emotionally vulnerable place in life. We don’t have much of a choice in becoming religion. My job is to get people out of religion. To show people that the beliefs they were indoctrinated into believing are ridiculous and that reality doesn’t match up with those beliefs. My job is to show people that the scientific method is a better tool than faith for determining fact from fiction and to point out that we use the scientific method in this way for just about everything else in our lives that matters.

        • Praise God

          You have yourself said that!! You constantly contradict yourself! My parents NEVER pushed religion on me. We never went to church when I was a child. Following Jesus was a choice I made on my own when I was seventeen years old. You you can blow that theory out the window. And I’m sure that applies for many also. No one has ever thought for me…I’ve been allowed to do that for myself. We all have a choice Dangerous Minds….all of us. So this is your job…you actually get paid for this. Scientific method? God created that too!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Where did you grow up where there was no religion? Of course you were indoctrinated into religion. Religion is everywhere! You can’t walk three blocks without seeing a religious house of worship. Religion is on our money, every President invokes it. Our society is dominated by religion. So when you say that it wasn’t pushed on you, you are mistaken. It is pushed on everyone!

            Maybe your parents didn’t push it, but society pushes it all the time. So what happened when you were 17? Were you in a bad place in your life and did Jesus come and save you? Please tell your story. I am betting that you were in an emotionally vulnerable position when you converted. Am I right?

          • Praise God

            No, not all. I was seventeen went to Calvery Chapel…loved it and excepted Jesus as my Savior…simple as that! There are also McDonalds and Starbucks all over the place to. That doesn’t mean I’m forced to go into one. Because it’s on our $$$ that forces us to worship? So again, your wrong. Religion was NEVER pushed on me. And I’m sure many feel the same. They must because of the millions upon millions of Christians in the world…..

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Actually, there aren’t millions upon millions for Christians in the world. There are three billion with a “B.”

            Second, McDonalds and Starbucks aren’t religions. However, McDonalds does dominate fast food and Starbucks does dominate coffee. So much so, that people have argued that McDonalds and Starbucks have significantly influenced our culture. Still, Christianity is much, much larger than both McDonalds and Starbucks and combined with actually being a religion and actually trying to control our culture, Christianity has influenced everyone! Our culture is saturated with Christianity. So yes, we have all been exposed to indoctrination from the Christian religion.

            You loved this particular church, so you became a Christian. That is your story? What did you love about this church which convinced you that there was a deity (when you previously didn’t believe there was one)? Did someone at this church present to you some facts or evidence which convinced you? Please share.

          • Praise God

            OK Billions there you have it…..thank you for that. Santa Claus, The Boogie man, Dragons and Vampires aren’t part of religions either, so why use them as “examples” as you do? My McDonalds and Starbucks where analogies, you know…..you use them all the time? Right? I never said I loved Calvery Chapel, I said I accepted Jesus into my life there. Did I ever say I continued to go to that church? Also, there was never a time even when I was young that I didn’t believe in something. Why do you think you know so much about believers and how they became believers? Again, if you knew anything about faith you who’d stop using words like “convince”. Right? Did I share enough? Are you going to assume more about who I am and my life yet again?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            You haven’t “shared” anything. You just said how you weren’t convinced, not how you were convinced. Please, tell me. How were you convinced that God was real and that Jesus was his son and the savior of all humankind.

            Now you are claiming that you always believed in “something.” Well, duh. But was that something a deity? If so, then was I correct when I stated that you were indoctrinated to believe in a deity?

            Yes, you used analogies, but as I pointed out your analogies doesn’t actually hold up. You have failed to point out that my analogies fail to hold up. Instead, you just took issue with my analogy choices rather than deal with the actual analogies.

            I love how you accuse me of assuming so much about your life when you are the one who claimed I am “very young” and all that other stuff you assumed about my life personally which you got laughably wrong.

          • Praise God

            No I didn’t I got it all exactly right….and you know it! That’s why you keep writing back to me. I’m driving you nuts!!! I think you should just block me now and give up. This is futile for you…..

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Lol. What disrespectful person you are. But here is the thing, I’m not going to block you. You are providing way too much entertainment and are showing such a great example of #ChristianLove.

            I would like you to share your story. I have shared part of mine and as a gesture of compassion, it would be nice if you reciprocated. You won’t of course because you have admitted to being a troll who has no interest in having a real conversation. You only want to insult and belittle. That’s cool though, I get that a lot from religious believers.

            BTW, If I am being driven so nuts, why do I continue to allow you to stay? Wouldn’t I just delete all your posts because they show how scary awesome you are? Wouldn’t I ban you in a fit of rage… since I am being driven nuts by you, right?

          • mreddiebjones

            Love it “Praise God!” I would remind you of what the Bible says about arguing with fools but I see that you’re not arguing, you’re just having some fun driving old DT nuts! lol and may God Bless

        • Praise God

          You haven’t showed anyone in any of these posts that the Scientific method is a better tool. Go back and read these peoples comments to you. Your beating your head against a wall here and have been to everyone….maybe I’ve read a few leaning towards your views. And who are you to decide what particular things in anyone’s life are things that should matter or not? Who are you to decide what is reality and what isn’t? Why is it your job to get people out of religion? Why is that anyone’s job for that matter. Why can’t people just believe what they want and be left alone and not judged one way or another? Your intolerant of Christians again because your angry for what God didn’t do for you or someone you cared about or for the world for that matter, when you actually believed in Him…..

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Why don’t you search the categories in the sidebar to see what I have written about the Scientific Method. Or, you could just scroll to the top of the screen and check out the Atheism 101 section. I address science vs. faith there too. But instead, you assert that I haven’t talked about it in the comments of an article that has nothing to do with that topic. I wonder why I never talked about it in that small particular place of the web. Maybe you should… I don’t know… maybe look in a place where I might have discussed it like in the Atheism 101 section or maybe search through the categories in the sidebar for such a topic or a related topic. No, it is just easier for you to assert claims with no evidence or basis in fact. Like when you claimed that I was “very young” or that your deity of choice exists.

            Then you ask again the same question that I answered over and over, and over and over again. I think I answered this question at least 50 times in the comment section of this one article. Here it is again for you: http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion

  • thomas j

    You keep saying religion. Creation and evolution are equally scientific and religious. The controversy is not religion versus science but the authority of God’s word versus man’s fallible words. Will we trust the word of the one who was there or the word of fallible man?? The media and the public education system tell us that creation cannot be taught in schools because it is religion, while evolution is science. It is easy to grasp the the basic tenets of science and quickly come to the the conclusion that evolution is really a religion. Christianity is under a massive attack…..Christianity vs Humanism….God’s word versus Man’s word….We (christians) are warned about this in 2 peter 3:3-7…..Evolution or molecules to man is a total joke…This is a fairy tail being taught in our public school systems as facts proven by science…. It has not been proven by science…. We were created…..The reason people do not want to accept creation is that it means there is a Creator who sets the rules. Thus, no person can write his own rules………You also talk about a what kind of God would torture some one?? That this is immoral…. Well you have a choice Dangerous Talk…..The God I serve is a JUST and HOLY GOD!! God gives you a choice and either you accept it or you dont…..IT IS UP TO YOU!!!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      *facepalm*
      Evolution is a scientific theory that has mountains of strong evidence backing it up across multiple disciplines. It is a stronger theory than the theory of gravity.

      Creationism is a religious belief with no valid scientific evidence supporting.

      There are no Christians in hospitals. When you are sick, you trust flawed fallible men and women over your imaginary deity. If you didn’t, then you would go to church instead of a hospital when you are sick. BTW, a couple in PA did take their two kids to church instead of a hospital when they were sick and guess what happened? The two kids died! Something to think about. Put your life where your mouth is.

      Yeah, it is my choice to either give the mugger my money or get shot in the head. I guess the mugger has no responsibility for me being shot in the head by his gun. It was just a logical consequence, right? You claim that your God created the situation in which I have to believe AND worship him based on insufficient evidence and his clearly horrific example.

      • thomas j

        You are comparing a mugger to the infinite God of this Universe?? If I was to just come up and slap you we would probably get in a argument or a fistfight…. But if I was to walk up and slap the President of the United States I would probably go to jail for a few years for the same action….Same act different consequences…..The point is it is not the act but who the act is against…. You cant compare a mugger to God…. Of course you do not believe in God…. And you have every right to your beliefs….But do not tell me that kids do not die in hospitals and that there are no Christians in hospitals?? Unfortunately kids die all the time in hospitals, and I go to bible study with 2 surgeons, a general physician, and a eye doctor. I am not sure if I understood what you meant when you stated ” There are no Christians in hospitals”. That is not true….. I believe God has given people certain talents (such as doctors) to help people here on Earth. So I have the following questions in regard to Evolution: 1.) So in the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded?? Really 2.) If the world is a billion years old then why is it only 2014?? 3.) If a monkey gave birth to a man then who would he or she mate with?? 4.) The last questions made me think of this: Why do we still have monkeys??

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          ROTFLMAO!
          My head is hurt from all the facepalming your comment caused.
          First, you missed the point of the analogy completely. The point is that the situation is created by the perpetrator. According to Christianity, God is all powerful and created everything. This means that he created a situation where billions of people would be tortured for all eternity.

          You also missed the point of my comment about there being no Christians in hospitals. My point is that when you get sick, you can either go to a flawed, fallible, doctor, or you can go pray to your imaginary deity in a church. Which do you choose?

          As for your questions, there are all ridiculously funny and show that you have no idea what you are talking about in regard to evolution or the big bang.

          • thomas j

            Instead of rolling on the floor and laughing your blank off, you should be kneeling on the floor praying to God and asking for forgiveness of your sins…..The only answer you gave me to my questions was to say that they were funny… I am glad I can humor you….Still looking for your answers to those questions…. I do not believe in molecules to man nor will I ever believe that.. . YOU HAD NO ANSWERS…. So obviously you are clueless… And talking about face palming…. You totally missed my point as well….You compared The Almighty God to a mugger and now you are calling him a perpetrator. God is all powerful and did create everything!! You analogy makes no sense…..When Adam and Eve messed up and made a decision against God’s commandment they brought sin into this world.. So we are born into sin…. Sin is a disease in and of itself…. You cannot work your way to heaven based on your goodness or through a merit system…….And everyone has sinned and fallen short of God’s expectation….There are only 2 ways to heaven and the path is narrow….1st you can to get heaven if you have lived a perfect life ( which is impossible) or secondly you can choose the provision that God gave us through his grace….. And of course as you know that is to accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and to repent of your sins…… THERE IS NO OTHER WAY…The situation God created for billions of people is that they have a choice to make on their future….IT IS UP TO THEM WHETHER THEY GO TO THE ETERNAL FIRE OR A HEAVENLY HOME….IT IS THEIR CHOICE NOT GODS……GOD IS HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS GOD… HE CANNOT ALLOW SIN IN HIS PRESENCE …..The choices the mugger gives you in your analogy are designed to hurt you no matter what you pick… (get your head blown off or give me my money) Plus, God does not have intentions of hurting you….He gave us hope through Jesus Christ!!! God is not a mugger!!! He loved us so much that he sent his only begotten Son so that we shall have eternal life….And for you sake and soul you better hope that I am wrong……You will either confess now that Jesus is the Son of God or you will confess after it is too late…. either way the bible says you will confess…. It is up to you….If people go to hell that was their choice!! Not Gods!!

            I admit I misunderstood what you meant when you stated ” there are no Christians in hospitals”. That is not true either!! I am LMAO on how stupid that question is……..Of course you are going to go see a doctor and if you are a Christian you are going to pray as well……Why do you think they have chapels in hospitals??
            Here is the question you asked: “My point is that when you get sick, you can either go to a flawed, fallible, doctor, or you can go pray to your imaginary deity in a church.” My point being is you chose BOTH…..You pray for healing and you pray for God to give wisdom and direction to the doctors……G
            .

          • thomas j

            You act as though God is a genie in a bottle….Is God supposed to just come out of the sky and perform medical miracles just because we ask him to…. If that was the case then why would we need faith?? God is not human….We are taught in the bible to be scared to death of God…. Exodus 33:20- ” But He (God) said, you cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live!” Remember to that because we were born into sin that we are detestable to God… That is why we need the provision of Jesus Christ….I hope God has mercy on your soul…..

          • Praise God

            I find ALL of your post ridiculously funny and also show that you have no idea what you are talking about in regard to your Savior and what he has done for you. See what I just did there. See how I’ve turned everything around….see how simple it is. YOU make it that simple. If your head is hurting from all this, why don’t you just give up on me and move on? I got your analogy….and my response is ?????

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I’m not going to give up on you J. The more you argue, the more you are forced to actually think about what you are arguing for. You admitted that you have no interest in learning, but in the course of arguing with me you are being exposed to thoughts and ideas you will never seek out on your own. That is awesome and that is one of the reasons why I didn’t ban you for being a troll. Have you ever had a real conversation with an atheist before… about religion? Have you ever had a conversation about religion with anyone from a different religious point of view?

          • Praise God

            LOLOL, funny cause when I get off this….I don’t think about it or you at all. I have other things going on in my life besides this. A lot of other things. I wish you would ban me from this ridiculous side you’ve created. I have had hundreds of conversations with atheist’s, and you all sound exactly the same. You’ve all been hurt in some way or form….and your all mad that God didn’t fix it for you immediately when you asked Him to….it’s the same story over and over. I’m not obsesses with these thoughts….you are. Don’t think for one minute when I walk away from my computer that I’m thinking of our conversations…..please. That comment made me laugh.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yes, all atheists have been hurt in some way… and so have every other human being on the face of the planet. lol. That doesn’t refute the Problem of Evil. It just points it out. You keep insisting that this conversation doesn’t bother you, but it seems like it does. You protest too much. You mentioned it twice in just this short comment… and how could it not bother you? I mean how can you have a long conversation about religion and then just stop thinking about it as if your brain has shut off? You see, the way our brains work is that we take in more information than our conscious minds are aware of. This means that you can’t just shut off your brain and that you are continually thinking about this conversation even after you shut down your science created computer. Your mind dwells on this conversation even if you consciously try not to think about it. The doubts are swelling in you now. How can a perfect and just deity allow billions of people to suffer in eternal torture? How can your perfect just deity allow babies, kids, and adults to suffer and die needlessly? Why did God create cancer? Why do religious believers suffer and die from cancer at the same rate as non-religious believers? You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout, but you can’t unread what you have read. You can try to ignore these questions, but they will reverberate in your mind long after this conversation has ended. Go, ask your pastor or religious leader for answers to these questions. Read some Christian books and websites to find the answers. Be curious! Even if it means going to sources that are still within your religious bubble. It doesn’t matter, because Christianity doesn’t have the answers; just assertions that don’t really make sense.

          • Praise God

            God didn’t create cancer……we did!!!! We have destroyed our immune systems with the foods we eat, the products we use, the polluted air we breath!!! We all have cancer inside of us. It’s whether or not our immune systems are strong enough to recognize the cancer cells and kill them off before they become a tumor or blood disorder. If you know nothing about cancer…..stop talking and referencing it! I’ve had it twice and God didn’t give it to me. We have created our demise in this world…..the sooner you get that the better off you’ll be. Stop crying about what God has done or allowed to happen in your life or anyone elses. He just pissed you off when you believed and now your reaching out for something else! None of this bothers……you on the other hand or just a very arrogant human being.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, someone’s getting angry. I must of hit a nerve (to use your words). I thought God created everything. I thought God was all-powerful. Well, did God created everything or didn’t he? You can’t have it both ways. Could God have prevented cancer or was he powerless to stop it? You can’t have it both ways. Google Epicurus!

          • Praise God

            No, you haven’t “hit a nerve” at all. I’m having so much fun pushing your buttons and making those fingers of yours try to keep up with the mush coming from your false allegations and ideas of other people and what they believe. I use explanation points to point out your ridiculous rampages that you think you know so much about. God did create everything that is good. We in turn have destroyed and corrupted it with are actions and the way we chose to live our lives. To answer your question cause you get so riled up when people don’t. Yes, God created again….everything that is good! Man has transformed that good with his actions and created everything else. That’s not having it both ways.Why should God have prevented cancer? Why should this world we’ve created now for ourselves be so perfect for you atheists? Why should there be no trails any of us have to go through? Again, atheists’ are spoiled rotten brats who want everything in their lives perfect? And when they believed at one time and God angered them (which he obviously did to you) your continuous temper tantrum for the remainder of your life is to try and convert as many people away from Him as possible. Your a sinner just like the rest of us Dangerous Talk…….stop wanting your little world around you to be perfect. Wanting God to step into every mistake you’ve made in your life and make it perfect. It doesn’t work that way. If this is going on why doesn’t God make it stop? If that is going on why does he make us suffer? What kind of a God tortures people? Your just blubbering and whining like a small child…..that’s all we’ve heard! I haven’t been angry at all during this one sided debate that I am blowing you away on. The Billions of Christians around the world and even the ones that have put you in your place on this blog would agree with that statement. Google this, atheists that can’t convince people that God doesn’t exist because of their condescending, rude, childlike demeanor…..see what you find?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            J, you really have to work on your reading comprehension. When I was 13, I lost my faith in God, but I wasn’t an active atheist until college. During the time in between, I really didn’t care much about religion because I lived in a pretty secular area. Even though everyone I knew was religious, they didn’t really talk about it much. It was a tradition they had and they went to their house of worship on whatever day their was appropriate within their faith. But they really didn’t bother anyone so I really didn’t care. It wasn’t until I met Christians like you who spew hate and go out of their way to push their beliefs on people that I started to become active in 1. learning about various religions and 2. arguing against various religions. My “anger” at the fact that we live in an unjust world filled with suffering only started to get me to question my deeply held religious beliefs. But it alone didn’t do the trick.

            You keep avoiding the Problem of Evil as if you have addressed it, but you really haven’t. You have just belittled it as childish and belittled me as such too. But this is actually a pretty big problem within theology. The Bible says that God created everything, both good and evil. You seem to disagree with what the Bible says as if you didn’t even know it said that. I guess I was correct before when I pointed out that you didn’t actually read your holy book series. Second, you are suggesting that humans created evil from nothing. How does that work? You are also suggesting that God doesn’t care that billions of people are suffering and will be tortured for all eternity because of a system he created. Again, if that is the deity you choose to worship, it says a lot about your own values. If God has the power to stop suffering, it would be cruel for him not to do so.

            Now again, I have been treating your arguments with respect and responding to them in all seriousness. You have not been as fair or honest.

        • Praise God

          Thomas, Dangerous Talk uses a lot of strange comparisons, muggers, boogie men, dragons….he goes off on these tangents and just loses us all…..it’s very hard to debate with his outrages…

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Why are those things “strange?” How are they any stranger than walking, talking snakes, demons, angels, gods, and the devil? Maybe you should try to understand what the analogy is talking about. Do you know who else used “strange comparisons?” Jesus. Think about it.

          • Praise God

            I do think about it everyday….I find Jesus stories and parables uplifting and they bring me peace and joy! That should make you happy…if your a decent human being who cares about other peoples happiness…If reading the word of God makes people happy and gives them joy….again, how is that hurting you at all?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Didn’t I answer that question about 50 times already? *facepalm*

          • Praise God

            Make it stop hurting you….cause it really doesn’t at all. And your reason for trying to convert people is still really none of your business is it?

  • me7

    The cure for cancer was found almost 100 years ago, in 1924. The pharmaceutiical industry are making far too much money for this to be made public ie billions and billions a year, if this is true they would loose alot of money. A bit like oil, a car could run on water, but the oil industry are making way too much money for this to go ahead. It shouldnt be difficult to understand that money has something to do with it all.
    Tell anyone who has had a near death experience who has visited it and turned their life around there is no hell there is no such thing and see how they feel. We all live usually less than 100 years, eternity is a very long time. Wait and see. I would rather warn people in a loving way and see them saved than merryily say nothing, know I am ok, and not care about where anyone else goes.

  • Eric Newberry

    “2. People wrote the King James Bible, not God. Even if you are a fundamentalist religious person who believes that God wrote (or divinely inspired) the Bible, human beings translated and published it in the form of the King James Bible.”

    ^ Historically Incorrect. King James commissioned a group of writers to transcribe the dead sea scrolls. One thing I have noticed about Atheist’s is that they seem to really struggle with getting factual information correct. For example Bill Nye knew nothing about the Bible and tried to debate its validity with the same adolescent ignorance that I had as a teenager regarding scripture. But in the end we will all be believers, trust that. I will pray for all Atheists because you have all been deceived. Much love.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      First, I love how you imply that I will be and ought to be tortured for all eternity and then and with “much love.” Clearly.

      Second, You quoting me saying that people wrote the King James Bible and then you go off telling me that I am incorrect and that in fact people wrote the King James Bible. Lol.

      • Eric Newberry

        First, I never implied that you will or ought to be tortured for eternity. I implied that although you think there is no God, in the end you will believe. It is God’s choice what happens to you after this not mine and I wouldn’t wish Hell on anyone.

        Second, your implication was that those who transcribed the King James bible in 1604 A.D. actually wrote the text when in reality they merely translated it to English and wrote the dead sea scrolls down verbatim. You said that people “wrote” aka “authored” the King James Bible and that is inaccurate.

        Third, I do love you. Take care.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          You apparently believe in Hell and you apparently believe that God is infallible. So you are basically saying that if someone ends up being tortured for all eternity, they deserve it. I don’t believe anyone deserves to be tortured. Not for five minutes and certainly not for all eternity.

          Second, obviously the King James Version is a translation. But it is a translation from a series of documents that people wrote and people changed over time. It was then translated and things often get missed in translations. But we don’t have the original documents that make up the Bible. Also, the cannon of Bible texts has changed over time and exists in it’s current form from a vote that wasn’t even unanimous.

          You seem desperate to misrepresent what I said in order to fit your stereotypes. For the record, the King James Translation was not translated from the dead sea scrolls verbatim. A quick Google search will confirm this:

          “James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect theepiscopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ordained clergy.[9] The translation was done by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England.[10] In common with most other translations of the period, the New Testament was translated from Greek, the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew text,” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

        • Praise God

          Hmmm, to Dangerous Talk: Here again is another that you implied wanted you tortured in Hell for eternity, even though he never said that…..are you in fact a little concerned about Hell? Why have you put those words in some of our comments to you when in fact we never said them? Your a little obsessed with Hell if you ask me…..

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yes, I am concerned with Hell. Now because I think it is real (I don’t), but because so many people do. It is a horribly immoral concept and yet it is the core belief of billions of people. It is a belief that people not only will be tortured for all eternity, but also that people should be tortured for all eternity. It is the view that people deserve to be tortured for all eternity and I find this view to be an affront to human dignity. No one deserves to be tortured – not for five minutes and certainly not for all eternity.

            This belief in Hell is a perfect example of why is wrong with Christianity. It has twisted morality in such a way that billions of people not only find torture to acceptable, but also that torture is the perfect judgment of their perfect deity.

            If you are a Christian and you believe Hell is real, then you should fight against your God. Any deity who has created a system in which billions of people will be tortured for all eternity is not a God worth worshiping. But you said you don’t believe in Hell, so that’s great. You at least have a sense of morality still going for you. Religion hasn’t driven it from you fully. You recognize that torture is wrong and that puts you way ahead of so many other Christians. Good job!

          • Praise God

            lolol, Again, I never said I didn’t believe in Hell…..boy you just write whatever comes into that head of yours. I just never answered your question the way you wanted me to. Remember, I’m not the one who needs to prove anything here…..you are. Never brought up the word torture either. Your batting a thousand here….Good job!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Clarify yourself: Do you or do you not believe in Hell?

          • Praise God

            WHY do you care? I think this is hysterical? I do believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Dragons? I guess this will just have to be a mystery to you. Again, I have nothing to prove to you…..never did from the beginning of all this.

        • Tim Tian

          Wrote means to have written not to have authored

  • George cooper

    God Bless you all. You can believe what you will. But God bless you all. I am his servant in Christ and do only believe in him. For I have hope in mankind in the name of Christ.

  • Forgiven

    Interesting . . . this back n forth, whose right and whose wrong. I am curious . . . why does an Athiest chose not to believe in God, a higher power? On one of the posts there are comments about ‘if I’m right.’ Doesn’t ‘if’ suggest doubt? I have no doubt. I know that when I die, I’ll be with my Savior. There is no IF I’m right, or IF I’m wrong. If we want to play the IF game, what if you are wrong, what will you lose? So much. Don’t be so quick to toss aside what you do not understand as well. I’ll be the first to admit, what an athiest believes, I’m clueless. If you have not read, or studied the Bible, you are making comments on things you do not understand as well. Judgment is beging passed back and forth, and where will that get anyone? No where, it seems everyone wants to prove I’m right, without hearing the other person. It is so odd, I came to this site to see what this Matthew 4 Protocol was all about. I was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago, and the day I learned I had cancer, was the day I woke up learning it was taken out of me, and I no longer had cancer. A simple surgery for appendix removal turned into major surgery. I needed no chemo, I need no further treatment. God took care of me every step of the way . . . His hand and His control in my life was so apparent it was scary. Nothing happened by luck or chance. I saw His hand every step of the way. So again, I ask you, what IF you are wrong?

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      You certainly put a lot on the table. First, I am astonished that you would admit to being dogmatic and that you are so arrogant to think that there is no possible way you could be mistaken or just plain wrong. How can you really have no doubt at all?

      Second, You are describing Pascal’s Wager. I suggest you spend a few minutes Googling it.

      Third, I have read and studied the Bible and at one point in my life I believed in God and had no doubts like you. But then I started to have doubts and over the course of time, the whole house of cards came crashing down. Don’t assume that because I am an atheist now, that I was always an atheist.

      Fourth, I am glad you are cancer free, but I do find it troubling that you are suggesting that God cured you because of your faith, but chooses not to cure so many other people many of which are also religiously faithful. Does God hate those people? Why did God love you better? Or maybe God hates you and that is why you are being punished with a few extra years here on Earth instead of being whisked away to eternal paradise. Somethings to think about in any case.
      Peace.

      • Forgiven

        You really enjoy the good debate, do you not. I’m not here to debate you. I have no doubts, I believe in God with all my heart, love Him with all my heart, and trust in Him with all my heart – in the good and in the bad. I believe that Christ died on the cross for MY sin. How can I have no doubt? How do I answer that question? I was not raised a Christian, lived for myself. I started reading the Bible, and where you found things to doubt in the Bible, I found things to lean on. During the trials and error in life, I can choose to reject God because things are not going my way, or I can choose to lean on Him. I choose to lean on Him.
        You are twisting my words concerning a faith healing. God did not cure me of my cancer because of my faith, I never suggested that. But His hand was involved in the process of me discovering cancer in time. He guided me to the doctor and the hospital that was best for me – giving me the best opportunity to heal, recover, and remain cancer free. I had found a lump before any doctor. They would say can’t feel it. For months, I laid hands on my abdomen and prayed, Lord keep this contained until someone finds what is wrong. I never prayed for healing. (But now, I do pray to remain cancer free.) I had stage 3 cancer, that should have been invasive and spread. It did not spread. It was contained. The oncologist was nothing but smiles when discussing my case. I had a case that everything should have gone wrong – but everything went right. I love my Lord with all my heart, and He is faithful. I was not healed because of my faith, I asked for a favor . . . lovingly He gave me that favor. Since you did study the Bible, you are aware of Original sin and a Fallen world. Why does God allow some of us to suffer cancer, and others to not suffer . . . I could not even begin to answer that question. No God does not love me better, He loves you and I the same. God does not hate a single person on this earth, He died on the cross for them. LOL, no He is not punishing me by keeping me here – He has a plan for my life, and I’ve not done everything He would have me do, not yet. If I’m diagnosed with recurring cancer tomorrow. My feelings will remain the same. I love God with all my heart, and I will honor Him until the day I die. When he chooses to take me home with Him, that His decision.

        • Praise God

          To Forgiven: Dangerous Talk is extremely good at twisting peoples words on this page. He’s done it to almost everyone. He reads what he wants and ignores the rest. This is what many do when they feel cornered. So many more Christians on this site then atheists….I find that amazing and rejoice in it!!! Praise GOD!!!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Lol.

            “So many more Christians on this site then atheists” Just on this one article. But still, I am glad you are here. On this site you will find information you might not have every heard before. I would rather have Christians here so you could check out some of the other articles and learn. So if this article is able to expose a fraud and bring more Christians to information they didn’t have before, then I am thrilled.

            Welcome to all my new Christian readers. :-)

          • Praise God

            This particular article is definitely a fraud…I agreed with that. But your not going to convert anyone by the way you write and express yourself to them through your writings. Your too condescending and “close minded” as you say. Still haven’t answered my question. Is there not many, many more Christians in the world then Atheists? I’m glad I’m here too…..this has been a blast!!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            ??? I answered that before you even asked it as a question. You stated it and I agreed with you that yes there are many more Christians than atheists. Now you are just lying when you stated that I didn’t answer it when I did.

            I have already addressed the “closed-minded” personal attack multiple times so I am going to let it slide here.

            So you are claiming that this Christian doctor is a fraud when he says that the Bible cures cancer. But how do you know that? While I am glad we agree here, I am more interested to know why you think what you think here. Do you simply have faith that this guy is a fraud? Or does your sense of reason help to inform your opinion here. Why are you trying to ruin this guy’s happiness and the happiness of all the people who send him $72 because they believe in this cure? I know why I do it but I want to know why you agree with me that this guy is indeed a fraud.

          • Praise God

            NO, you said there were more Christians on this particular post….you NEVER until now admitted there are more Christians in the world then atheists…..come on, let’s cross all or t’s and dot those i’s. Cause now your just getting sloppy….He’s a fraud because he’s asking for $$$$.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I’m not going to hunt down the comment, but as soon as you brought up that there were more Christians in the world, I agreed with you. Because as a point of fact, there are. Christianity is the largest religion in the world. I don’t see why that is an issue because Islam is nearly as large and Buddhism isn’t far behind Islam. I still don’t see your point in bringing it up.

            So anyone who asks for money is a fraud according to you? All the churches? All the ministries? Most of Christianity? Interesting.

      • Praise God

        Why are you attacking this person calling him arrogant. That’s not an attack? Is there no possible way you could be mistaken or just plain wrong also? Again, another example of how easy it is to just turn everything you say around. This house of cards that came down must have been very traumatic for you. And I’m sorry for that. But it still doesn’t give you the right to call people arrogant, tell them their beliefs are ridiculous and belittle them like you do. God hates no one…God loves no one better then the other. People chose how they want God in their lives….not God. God doesn’t force himself on anyone. As I said before, some of us are meant to live in this place longer then others. It’s part of our plan. And we all have one……we’re we end up in the end is solely up to us. God wants us ALL with him…..where ever that may be.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          “But it still doesn’t give you the right to call people arrogant, tell them their beliefs are ridiculous and belittle them like you do.” See you do know the difference between ridiculing beliefs and belittling people. I am guilty of the former, but not the latter.

          Again, I am pointing out behavior that people have clearly demonstrated. Just as you claimed to be close-minded and bragged about your lack of curiosity. It is pretty arrogant to think that one could never be mistaken or wrong. That is the very definition of the term.

          You are again talking about Hell in a cryptic way. BTW

          • Praise God

            No, you are still guilty of both.LOLOL Again, never bragged about my lack of curiosity. Again, you putting words in peoples mouths (this is how you write) Again, never mentioned the word Hell either. “we’re we end up is solely up to us”. Why are you assuming I mean Hell at all, I didn’t write that….. Your are obsessed with Hell.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I pointed out exactly where you said that you lacked curiosity in a previous post and I am not going to go back looking for it now. Others can do that if they are interested. But you did brag about how you had no interest in researching or learning about anything. It was one of the early posts you made.

            As for Hell, I have asked you repeatedly to clarify your position because I might have been in error in assuming you believed in Hell. But you have refused to clarify your position on this. So let me ask you one more time. Do you or do you not believe in Hell?

            Also addressed my obsession with Hell after you accused me of believing in Hell. I clarified my position… unlike some people. :-(

  • markgiambrone
  • Jill

    I totally agree with the author of this article. Whether you’re a Christian or an atheist you have to ask yourself what kind of “Christian” would find the cure for cancer in the bible and then not tell you what it is. Just say what it is. Total scam. I mean a few seconds on the website and your scam sensors should be dinging.

    • Praise God

      I agree with you Jill. I’m sure it is some kind of scam. But Dangerous Talk has taken this whole thing and ran with it. He is using it to attack all Christians and their faith. Christians have the right to wait for divine healing from God if this is how they wish to be healed. This is their choice. He calls it ridiculous and dangerous. If a Christian receives healing in these bodies or when they go home to be with the Lord. Like I said before…..it’s a win, win for them either way. Right? It’s all about faith. That’s what Christianity is based on. You either have it or you don’t…..

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        First, I want to clear my name from your slanderous allegations. I have not attacked all Christians. In fact, I haven’t attacked any Christians. At most, you could argue that I have attacked the ridiculous beliefs that most Christians hold. But what you call an attack, I call criticism. Is it a crime to criticism someone else’s ideas? Of course not. We criticize people’s ideas all the time. So why are religious ideas any different than political ideas or any other ideas?

        Second, how do you know this Biblical Cure for cancer is a scam? I submit to you that you have used your critical thinking skills to deduce that this guy is preying on the religious to make a fast buck. That’s good, because he almost certainly is. Paying him $72 for the secret “Biblical Cure” will make you $72 poorer and not cure your cancer or any other ailment. But why can’t you just have faith that it is true? Don’t you want it to be true? Wouldn’t life be better if we could just believe that it was true? Sure, but wishing something is true doesn’t make it true.. If you have cancer, it is better to seek actual medical attention rather than give this guy a dime and waste you very precious time.

  • Aggravated

    The reason why it is the fasting for 40 days and 40 nights because sometimes cancer is caused by what we eat. So when a person fasts they are cleaning out their systems.

    • Ned Carter

      Cancer is caused by a mutation in your cells, and once mutated they continue to grow no matter what you eat.

  • John Williams
  • mreddiebjones

    Poor atheists… living their lives in torment… having absolutely no way of knowing whether God exists or not (an undeniable fact for any human being)… and therefore, potentially missing out on something great…. while gaining nothing

  • mreddiebjones

    Poor atheists… living their lives in torment… having absolutely no way of knowing whether God exists or not (an undeniable fact for any human being)… and therefore, potentially missing out on something great…. while gaining nothing

    • Ned Carter

      Fact, you do not use that word correctly. Missing out? on being forced to live as dead men commanded in a book? I think not, being able to openly explore the world without the shackles of an oppressive religion is freedom.

      • mreddiebjones

        Is that it? Are you scared of being oppressed? The ‘fact’ is, your poor soul can have absolutely no way of knowing whether God exists or not. If Christians are wrong, they’ve lost nothing, not even their ‘freedom.’ If you are wrong… well, you don’t care and that’s your prerogative. Unfortunately, you are only looking at it from a point of view that you are right and yes, the ‘fact’ is, you have no way of knowing whether you are right or not. For that, I am sad for you and will pray to God for you (and no, I do not need your permission to pray for you).

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Google Pascal’s Wager. Thanks!

          • mreddiebjones

            An interesting topic. Thank you for sharing. However, it does not discredit my post or change the facts.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Actually it pretty much does refute your comment. You are using Pascal’s Wager and that is an argument which has been refuted. So yes, it does “discredit” you post. You can also check out the Atheism 101 Series at the top of the page. There is an article there that deals with Pascal’s Wager.

          • mreddiebjones

            lol..

        • Ned Carter

          You lose your entire life if you are wrong… to following unnatural limitations and kneeling to air in subservience. And your argument is pure garbage. Pascal’s wager is the name it has gone by for centuries. You would have to worship ALL THE RELIGIONS THAT HAVE EVER BEEN for your argument to hold up, because you allude to gaining something if you are right.
          And talking to yourself about me is fine, I don’t mind your passive aggressive threats of trying to change me through mental communication with your zombie overlord.

          • mreddiebjones

            lol

  • freechoice64

    Dangerous you say there is no God and No Hell. You want us to supply facts to you that there is. What are you facts that they do not exist. All I can say if I am wrong nothing happens, but if your wrong you will spend eternity in Hell… I will pray for you to receive knowledge and to believe in Faith…

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Freechoice64, you say there is no Boogieman who and eat you in your sleep. You want me to supply facts to you that there is. What are your facts that he do not exist. All I can say if I am wrong nothing happens, but if your wrong the Boogieman will eat you in your sleep… I will hope for you that you will worship the Boogieman so that he will spare you and eat someone else.

      Pascal’s Wager much… Google it!

      • Praise God

        I know that you though that I was slandering you when I mentioned your comments are “Childlike”. I’m sorry, but this is a perfect example of that. Dangerous Talk, If you want people to take you seriously, then you need to learn how to express yourself in a way that conveys that you really are coming from a valid place. Your parables are sorry, but very childish. The comparisons you chose to use are nothing less then that of an angry kid trying to get back at the other kids that are picking on him and won’t do and think what he tells them to.It’s obvious that you are out numbered here. Read all the posts again. Your outbursts and GOOGLE research is doing you no good here and has gotten you nowhere to say the least……the very least.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Lol.

          • Praise God

            Glad u finally agree…

        • Tim Tian

          What he just did is called a reductio ad absurdum. It’s amazing easy to do on religion arguments. I wonder why

  • Krissyred13

    Wow this discussion has gone way off topic LOL…. I thought it was supposed to be about how much of a scam this forever long slide show for the Matthew 4 protocol cure is….I consider myself to be neither a christian nor an atheist, but to get back on topic here. I believe it to be true that you can prevent and cure your body of disease and live a longer healthier life as well and It is very simple but it is far from easy and it is not inexpensive. In the slide show he talked about starving the cancer, this is also true. The way to do this is with a raw diet, free from red meat, dairy and chemicals. That means you only eat from the earth. And I very much agree that the “secret” is not really in that single passage of the bible. Although i kinda get how they try to tie that in….It not easy because it is not convenient, produce is expensive and goes bad quickly, chemicals are in literally just about everything on the grocery shelves, and most of all old habits die hard. Hence the temptation, and generally when you learn about how eating a raw diet can change your life and make you feel amazing you learn how to cleanse your body of toxins first usually with a 30 day cleanse or fast if you will….A lot of people use parts of this life style change as fad diets or summer slim downs but to truly reap the benefits you have to make a complete life style change it not just a diet. During the cleanse period along with just eating fruits, vegetables and nuts you take herbs that help cleanse your body of toxins including mullein, cascara sagrada and another that escapes my mind at the moment…another part of the cleanse is drinking a lemon cleanse (1 cup fresh squeezed lemon juice, 1/2 cup grade B maple syrup, 8 cups water, 1/8-1/2 tsp cayenne pepper) and lots of water. So there that’s the so called secret that they don’t want to tell you. And even if you don’t believe it to cure cancer and what not I am walking breathing living proof that it does make you feel absolutely amazing!!! Soft clear amazing skin, more energy, healthy shiny fast growing hair, nails you name it it makes you feel great!! But it is definitely far from easy to change your whole life style and give up all the things you love eating that are so terribly bad for your health.

  • Doe Day

    I’ll pray for you!

  • GWG

    There is a movie in theaters on March 21 called “God’s Not dead”. I think this forum would benefit if you were to see it and comment on it here. Please also see my question regarding Fr. Robert Barron’s responses to atheist’s questions on You Tube. Thirdly, what is your impression of the physicians at Fatima who use modern medicine to prove miracles allegedly granted by the Blessed Virgin?. Thank you. GWG

  • jabres

    I believe every word in the Bible is true and no Atheist is gonna change that…..I wish you would believe ..I would sure hate to go to Hell

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Well, the view that every word of the Bible is literally true has pretty much been debunked. As a point of fact, the Bible is not literally true. Don’t take my word for it; Google stuff for yourself. I should also point out that every word of the Bible can’t be true since it contradicts itself in multiple places. You can Google that too.

      Threats of eternal torture really aren’t going to convince me. If anything, present a good reason not to worship such a deity.

      • Praise God

        Unfortunately Dangerous Talk, there is no way we can present you with or convince you to worship anything or anyone. Free will is a gift to us all. You will be convinced one day by God himself. And when that day comes, I pray you will get down on your hands and knees.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          You can’t present any valid evidence because your God doesn’t exist. If he existed, he would present that evidence to us all. Then we could make an informed choice to either worship him or not. Personally, I wouldn’t even if I knew he existed. Based on the Bible, God would not be worship worthy. But I can’t really make an informed choice because I don’t have any valid evidence that he even exists. It’s a massive fail.

          • Praise God

            Why does God need to prove his existence to you or anyone for that matter. Christianity is based solely on faith and faith alone. Dangerous Mind. I have survived cancer twice in my life. I have had numerous other situations in my life that have convinced me and been evidence enough that there is someone or something much bigger then any of us can fathom. Maybe it takes trails and tribulations in our lives for us to finally see with our spiritual eyes. Suffering is a part of life. It seems like you think if there’s a God he should snap his fingers, as you say and make life perfect, easy, simple….nothing bad should ever happen to anyone..right? He’s God, He could make all suffering go away if He wanted. Why? We’ve created ALL our own sufferings for ourselves. Mankind has destroyed everything….our own planet for God sakes. We are our worst enemies. Why should he save us from ourselves? He’s our Father and we are a huge disappointment …..this is fact! Look at the world around you. Mankind has done it all……not God. Put the blame where blame is due. Point the finger at the reason for our demise.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Again, your religion has created an elaborate scheme to explain reality in the face of contrary evidence. Let me ask you this. If you could prevent needless suffering, would you?

            I am going to assume that you are a decent human being and that you would in fact prevent needless suffering if you could. In fact, you have already stated that you think human beings caused all this suffering in the world and that this was a bad thing. So I am going to assume we both agree that needless suffering is bad.

            The problem is that you are not in a position to prevent needless suffering… but do you know who is? God (assuming he exists… which is your premise). So if needless suffering is bad and God has the power to prevent it, why is there needless suffering? You claim we caused it, but God knew about it and could have prevented. To which you will counter with free will and that God as a parent needs to teach us a lesson or something. But, free will doesn’t excuse God from preventing needless suffering and if God wanted us to know something he could have implanted that knowledge into our brains. We can’t do that with our children, but God can (assuming he exists and is all-powerful).

            So where does that leave us? It leaves us with the fact that you would be a much more compassionate and worship worthy deity than the God you worship. This is the face of your incredibly low self-esteem (since you believe yourself to be a wretched even sinner).

            I don’t think you are a wretched evil sinner. I think you are a good, compassionate person who is doing your best to do the right thing, but who gets sidetracked along the way. Far from insulting you, I think you are awesome… but a little misguided. Faith has rotted your brain. You have been indoctrinated into believing things that aren’t true on insufficient evidence. They got you when you were young, impressionable, and vulnerable. They saturated society with this poison and you were not in a position to resist.

            Now you have a choice. You can educate yourself about the world around you. You can choose to open your eyes and learn or close your eyes and hide. How did the universe begin? Google it and learn how scientists know about the Big Bang. Did humans evolve from other species or did God create Adam and then create Eve from his rib? The universe is filled with wonder. Learn about it. Stop looking forward to death and start to look forward to life! Live your life and enjoy it.

          • Praise God

            Oh I do live life and enjoy it everyday Dangerous Talk! And I’m quit educated indeed. You’d be very surprised how educated I truly am. You did a lot of assuming in this post. You know what assuming does….don’t you? Again, have a great day!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            The great thing about education is that you can never be educated enough. But you didn’t address any of the issues I brought up and have flat out stated that you have no interest in learning about these issues. You even said that you have no interest in asking questions. That is disappointing and sad.

          • Praise God

            I have no interest in listening to someone try and convince me of issues concerning trying to prove God doesn’t exist..why would I…I’m a Christian, I have no interest what so ever of learning of these so called issues.They are most certainly would never change my mind or convince me of anything. I need not try to convince you of anything. Like I said before, I don’t care what you believe or don’t believe. You on the other hand care very much about what I believe. I have in fact asked you many questions here? The biggest one being….why the need and passion for degrading others that don’t believe what you believe…..your not going to change anyone’s mind here Dangerous Talk. Like I said before, there is much more of us then there is you……Faith is too strong for you…..and way bigger then you or I am…….by the way did you Google the fact that there are more Christians in the world then atheists…..Hmmmm And if you are concerned about friends or family that you think are being lied to so you want to educate them. Let them too make their own decisions….they have that right. I hope you don’t say to your friends and family what you say to people on this site. Let them think for themselves and just leave them alone…..

          • Praise God

            Ok, I am going to give you a rest….cause you need one. You’ve been banging your head against a wall here and you’ve GOT to be getting tired. Again, I don’t need to prove, convince, find evidence etc. to give to you. Again, I don’t care what you believe in….AT ALL!!! Again, you on the other hand need to research, GOOGLE your way through to what ever it is your looking for. That’s fine. I never wanted to PROVE to anyone anything! I don’t need to. You on the other hand need to do all of this…hence this web site. Don’t hurt yourself….take a break. (condescending?) Ok, maybe a little…..and ALL THE MULTITUDES OF CHRISTIANS said, AMEN!!! It is done!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            This is a perfect comment to illustrate my point. You have just admitted to being close-minded and to not being a curious person. Maybe other people are more curious and open-minded than you are. People have be indoctrinated into their religions for thousands of years and now we live in an age of information and interconnection. People now how access to what other people believe and access to information they never had access before. You are free to believe whatever you wish. I support your right to do so. But you should support my right to point out where your beliefs are inaccurate. I support the freedom of inquiry. If you want to live with your head in the sand, that is your right and I will fight for your right to do just that. But remember, you came to my site. I did not come knocking on your door on a Saturday morning to preach to you. I did not erect giant buildings on nearly every street corner to preach atheism. I’m not trying to take your rights away at all. I will defend your right to believe whatever you want to believe no matter how ridiculous it may or may not be. If Tom Cruise wants to jump on couches and preach about the evil Lord Xenu, that is awesome, but I will criticize that belief and expose it as being untrue. You want to preach about how a talking snake and how women came from a man’s rib, that’s awesome. I will fight for your right to believe that and to preach that, but I will point out that the facts are not on your side.

            Yes, there are more Christians in the world than atheists. But atheism is growing an an alarming rate because we live in the information age and people can now use Google to find the truth. Of course there will always be close-minded people like you who assert that “nothing will ever convince you otherwise” and who are not curious and who are unwilling to research the facts. There are still people in the world who believe in Astrology too, but the majority of the people no longer look for the signs in the sky to dictate their actions. Most people laugh at that stuff today and Astrologists are forced to put the disclaimer that their services are for entertainment purposes only. Religious claims are also for entertainment purposes only and they are very entertaining.

          • Corey Firepony

            Except…as in every other case…there is reason to believe that a natural cause is more likely for you surviving cancer than supernatural. I’ve survived what should have been fatal accidents in my profession as a firefighter…and I still don’t believe in god. Each time, biology, or physics could explain why I survived the situation…

            I also think it’s weird that if you are asserting the Christian god, that it’s not fair to snap your fingers and demand evidence from god, since numerous times in the old and new testament, he did so quite willingly. It’s amazing how when technology came about and science began to flourish…the claims of miracles and god saving people suddenly decreased.

            And now for my final point-if in fact god is the reason humans exist, and god created sin, since he created everything…than it is in fact god’s fault I cannot choose to be a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Hindu or any other religion there is…the point being…if your god is as great as you claim, than your god cannot exist because it would be a direct violation of everything you claim to be. Now, that’s not to say god couldn’t exist, he or she just do it with the attributes that his own book, and by extension his followers claim. Which…still makes your god unworthy of being followed, and in should in fact be preached against.

          • Praise God

            You have yet to present any valid evidence that God does not exist? A futile cycle wouldn’t you agree?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            First, I doubt you have read every article on my site so I really don’t think you can make that claim. This article is to expose a con man who uses the Bible to make money at the expense of people’s health and lives. The purpose of this article is not to disprove God.

            Second, I don’t need to provide evidence that something doesn’t exist any more than you need to provide evidence that something doesn’t exist. You don’t like the Santa Claus analogy, so pick whatever one you want. Pick one thing that doesn’t exist and then provide evidence that it doesn’t exist. Pick whatever you like. Go for it.

            The burden of proof is on the person asserting the positive claim. You are asserting that your deity of choice exists so the burden is on you to provide evidence for that claim.

          • Praise God

            That’s the whole point I’ve been trying to make to you….I don’t need to pick Santa Claus, the Boogie Man, whoever….that’s you. I don’t have a burden of proof….you’ve made that for yourself. Your trying to prove that God doesn’t exist. I am not trying to prove that to anyone. I know He does…..FAITH tells me he does. You can’t from your “close mindedness” understand the word Faith. I don’t have to prove anything to you cause I don’t care what you believe. Why can’t you understand that. I don’t want to convert you….I don’t care what you believe. AT ALL, not even a little. It is not my passion (as it is yours) to provide you with anything. I find you amusing.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I know this might be difficult for you to grasp, but maybe the world doesn’t revolve around you. Maybe this isn’t about you. Remember, you came here. I am not out there knocking on your door preaching to you. If you have no interest in trying to convert me, then why are you here arguing with me trying to convert me? The very screen name you chose sees like a demand to do just that.

            My point is that there are a lot of Christians (most in fact) who do want to convert people (mainly because the Bible says to do that). If you are not one of those people, then this isn’t about you.

            Again, I was religious. I had faith. I am still open to the possibility that I am wrong. I even go and read and research the religious views of those who disagree with me because I am open-minded to the possibility that I might be wrong. You on the other hand claim to be closed to the possibility that you might be wrong and you even brag about that. You refuse to read anything that disagrees with your belief and call anyone who criticizes your belief as hateful and “attacking” actual people when we don’t. Just something to think about… or not. I won’t want you to stress yourself out.

          • Praise God

            I’m not trying to convert anyone here…..I’m just letting you know how much I believe in God. As I’ve said numerous times. I could care less what you believe. I don’t think it’s right to create a Blog that tries to manipulate people that are believers by giving them false information just because you use to be a Christian and it didn’t work out for you. Someone got a hold of you and started feeding you all this….and now your just doing the same. It’s that simple. You said yourself that you use to be a Christian. Your life probably wasn’t going the way you thought it should….bad things may have happened to you, your family or friends and you got mad at God cause he wouldn’t make it right and perfect for you…..and like I said, someone started spewing at you about how mean God is and how could a God allow so much evil, pain and suffering in this world…..and you bought into it. Most atheist use to be Christians….you just want God to pull all of mankind out of the mess that they have created for themselves. We’ve had our chance to prove that we can be decent to one each other. We can’t! Mankind hates mankind!!! We kill each other, corrupt each other, have caused all of our own disease that is killing us all by how we treat and feed our bodies. We’ve polluted and destroyed this planet we have been given. We are intolerant of anything and everything. Did God make us this way? No, we made choices…..and they were the wrong ones. A price has to be paid for that. Atheists are spoiled rotten brats that are mad at the Creator for not FIXING everything just because HE CAN. Thing is…HE CAN. He doesn’t because we don’t deserve it! You don’t deserve it. I don’t deserve it. This is exactly why God came to us as he’s Son to die on a cross that you and I will one day have the choice of eternal life or not. You chose not to buy into that….that’s fine. I believe that with every cell of my being. The proof is all around us. You just chose not to see it. That’s ok. I’m not stressed at all about this debate we’ve been having. What you do just seems so futile to me. God is everywhere, and know matter how hard you try and convince people different. There will till the end of time be more believers then not. If this is your passion in life and what you’ve dedicated yourself to do….that’s gotta sting a little….

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Wow, your reading comprehension is worse than I thought. I never said I was a Christian, lol. As a point of fact, I never was a Christian. In college, I had many devout Christian friends that I talked to about religion and I even was a regular at Christian meetings, But I never was a Christian. No, no, no. Since I never was a Christian, I certainly never claimed to have been a Christian. You just made that up.

            I did believe in God once and I was indoctrinated into religion just like everyone else. When I was 13, I was in a bad place in my life and that forced me to question God for the first time in my life. It was then that I sort of became an atheist, but it wasn’t until I went to college and became friends with Christians and started attending Christian meetings regularly that I really became an outspoken atheist. Back then, Dawkins had not yet written about atheism and I didn’t know any other atheists. The internet was new and it was hard to find any information critical of religion at all. No one told me how to argue various points in regard to religion. I had to figure it all out myself. When the internet started to become popular, I was able to do some more research and find out that all the arguments against religion that I came up with were already around for hundreds and even thousands of years. I just wasn’t aware of them because I didn’t know of any atheists and there were very few atheist books (none that even had access too).

            But you are right about one thing. I did question why an all loving God would allow suffering and evil in the world. But again, I hadn’t realized that Epicurus had already made that argument 2500 years ago. religious believers still haven’t been able to address that issue adequately.

            You ask, “Did God make us this way?” Let’s look at that question for a moment from your point of view. You claim that God made us, right? You also claim that God is infallible, right? And that he is all-knowing? So he knew how we would turn out and still made us the way he did? That seems like pretty big design flaw, don’t you think? So according to your view, he did make us this way. Now, i have made the argument that according to Christian theology, we were unable to make an informed choice until after Eve ate the fruit, but that’s a long argument that you aren’t going to bother to read anyway.

            Then you talk about what I “deserve.” didn’t we have this conversation before? Do you or do you not believe in Hell?

            And back to the elaborate scheme we go.

            You sure do a lot of yelling for someone who doesn’t care.

            BTW, while there are more religious believers now, that might not always be the case. Atheism is on the rise and the more interconnected the world becomes and the easier it is for people to access information and facts, the more people will question their religious beliefs. While you might not be curious about the world around you, most people are. They will explore their doubts and find that religion’s answers aren’t the correct ones. Again, I don’t think I am wasting my time at all. I have de-converted a lot of people and that has shown me that what I am doing does have meaning to me.

          • Praise God

            There is just too much nothingness on this comment for me to even comment on. I here nothing when I read it. Still, you haven’t converted anyone…..you just think you have……lololol

          • Corey Firepony

            You clearly do not understand how to make a coherent and logical argument (and yes, in case you need clarification, that was a criticism of you, not your belief).

            The burden of proof lies with the person making a positive claim, meaning that if your position is that you see no evidence for god, and someone tells you god exists, than it logically follows the person who is making the claim of existence must provide proof of this existence. Otherwise, the person in question is perfectly justified in maintaining a position of skepticism.

          • Praise God

            LOLOL and you do? Come on…..now look who’s attacking?

          • Tim Tian

            Say it with me
            BURDEN OF PROOF ON PROPONENT
            There we go

      • Praise God

        No atheist is gonna change the mind of any Christian. That’s why this web site is such a waste….

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          That’s simply not true. I have personally de-converted many people away from religion and I get e-mails and letters from people all the time thanking be for it sometimes years later. Five years from now, you may be one of them. The more religious someone appears to be, the more doubts they often hide from the world.

          • Praise God

            LOLOL, still don’t believe this for a second! Don’t hold your breath.

  • Praise God

    To: Dangerous Talk…Why do you feel you have to criticize anyone’s “ridiculous” (as you said) beliefs at all? Who are these beliefs dangerous to? You? Christians beliefs are rooted only in faith. And that’s good enough for many of them. Being an Atheist is fine..just like being a Christian is fine also. Everyone is just attacking each other back and forth here and none of you are going to convince each other of anything. It’s not dangerous to a Christian to believe that Gods plan for them is divine healing. If this is how they chose to wait for their healing. If it doesn’t come here in this place in their bodies…it will come when they go home to be with the Lord. It’s a win, win for a Christian Dangerous Talk. That’s just how we believe. You need to learn to be OK with that. No more judgment. God Bless U All..:)

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      “It’s not dangerous to a Christian to believe that Gods plan for them is divine healing.” Really? Tell that to Brandon & Kent Schaible. If you don’t know who they are, Google them!

      This is why atheists care about religion: http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion

      • Praise God

        You like many, are just afraid to die Dangerous Talk. Christians have something to look forward to. Atheists in fact do not. I chose not to read about Brandon & Kent Schaible story. Death is just a part of life. The one thing in common we all have is that we all will die one day. Some sooner then others. I’m ok with that. My days are predetermined the day I was conceived. You worry too much! When the creator of the heavens and earth is in charge and you truly believe that. All these ridiculous debates become null and void. You can stop fighting back and forth. It’s not in your hands Dangerous Talk. It never has been and it never will be. You’ll come to know this one day…..and then and only then will it make any sense to you. Relax let down your guard…..and be still and know that He is God! Bless You

        • Praise God

          The original article here that you were talking about. Cures in the bible and someone trying to make $$$ from it. Yes, it probably is a scam. And it’s very unfortunate that someone would use God in this way. But many do and have for decades. But you have turned it into much more then that. Looking at all these posts, you need to believe what you want and allow others to do the same. People who belabor their ideas, beliefs and thoughts as much as you are trying to do here usually are very confused themselves of what you are trying to convey. As much as you Google stuff, you should try and educate yourself a little more with scripture. Especially about bible prophecy and how at present time prophecy that was predicted thousands of years ago is in fact happening today. Google it!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I did Google it: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL06647458012261F8

            BTW, I am pretty educated about the Bible and Bible prophecy. Did you know that for the last 2500 years people were claiming that holy scripture predicted that the end was near? Even Jesus thought that the Torah predicted end time prophecies were happening right in his day and that his generation would see the end of days. Yeah, Jesus was the Harold Camping of his day. Something to think about.

          • Praise God

            God loves you Dangerous Mind……I pray that one day you’ll come to know him! He’s amazing! Peace to you

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Lol, yeah… your imaginary deity loves me so much that he created a system in why I will be tortured… not for five minutes, but for all eternity (which I hear is a pretty long time). Not only that, but you believe that I deserve it! That’s not a peaceful message. That’s horrible. No one deserves to be tortured. Not for five minutes and not for all eternity. No one deserves to be tortured!

            Look, I am treating you with respect and all you are doing in ignoring everything I say and refusing learn where I am coming from or even to think about what I have to say.

            Here I am, giving you my time which for me is a very valuable and finite commodity and you are wasting it with mind-numbing sayings that lack sincerely. You don’t even have the decency to treat me as a human being.

            Religion has done this to you and it is very sad. I hope that someday you will find your curiosity back. Maybe someday you will want to learn about the world again instead of hide from it. I have presented you with some things to read and think about and yet you refuse. You are so afraid that you have shut your eyes. I am willing to look into any evidence you can present. I have read the holy books of many religions and the works of prominent religious believers of various religions. I am curious and not afraid. I could be wrong and their might be a god or maybe even many gods. So I look into it so that I can be informed and so I can learn. But not you. You refuse to learn about anything. You refuse to think about anything. You are proud of being dogmatic and close-minded. You are proud that you have no curiosity. It’s sad and I genuinely weep for you.

          • Praise God

            You seem to know an awful lot about me don’t you? You seem to be making many claims of your own about me. You know nothing about me. I have been treating you with respect. I’m just not buying in to any of this and it’s driving you nuts!!! You on the other hand, especially with this last post, have tried to belittle me, calling me close-minded, no curiosity etc. You’ve done this to hundreds of people on this site! But that’s ok cause its your site right? To create a site like this to hope to destroy peoples faith is wrong. What if we’re ALL wrong? But if people need something to hold on to in this life, something that helps get them through hard times….through life…what is wrong with that? And why does it bother you so much? Are they physically hurting you or anyone else for that matter? Why do you feel so compelled to destroy peoples peace, hope or even joy that they have chosen for themselves. What does anyone have to lose by having a little or A LOT of hope. Many will come onto this site, possibly in desperation, not knowing what to believe. Maybe new found Christians but very weak and confused individuals. What it they read all your personal thoughts and decide that if this is all there is and their lives are hopeless, decide to commit suicide over something you’ve claimed that they in fact had hope in? I wouldn’t want that on my head….would you? You’ve made a very large mistake here. You claim that I think you deserve to be tortured for eternity. I never once judged you personally. You in fact have continued to ignore most of my questions. Still, why do you care so much about what other people believe? Why do you want so badly to try and change their minds? Why are you not comfortable in your own beliefs to just leave others alone and live your own life? Why was a web site created for you to vent out on others like you do? Why are you so angry about it all? Please don’t weep for me……I am an extremely happy blessed human being. I live with joy and peace in my heart everyday. Looking forward to today and the rest of my life. I respect your beliefs….I just wish you would do the same for Christians…..stop trying to prove God doesn’t exist publicly…..it’s a waste of time. You’ll never convince a true Christian. And we’re the majority and always will be for that matter….Google it! Have a great day!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            LOL! I haven’t ignored your questions! I answered them at least five times. You on the other hand have ignored my answers. You said that you had no interest in researching the facts or in the answers that I have provided. That is the very definition of a lack of curiosity. So yes, I said you lack curiosity because by your own admission you do. You said that you will never change you view on this subject. That is by the very definition closed-minded. Yes, I said you were closed-minded because by your own admission, you are. I didn’t make those claim; YOU DID!!! I just repeated what you said about yourself. I don’t know you. I don’t even know what gender you are. All I can do is repeat your view of yourself back to you. I did say that I think you are a much better person than the one you claim to be. I think you are probably a person who is more compassionate than the deity you worship.

            That brings me to your claim that I deserve eternal torture. You identified yourself as a Christian. You made references to a belief that this life was not the only life we live. You made references to the view that after death, people will either live in eternal bliss (if they are saved) in Heaven or that they will be tortured for all eternity (if they are unsaved) in Hell. I think it goes with out saying that you believe God is infallible, right? So if I am unsaved, I will go to Hell and be eternally tortured in your view. Do you think God made a mistake or do you think I deserve the punishment God has made? I think it is pretty clear that you believe that I deserve to be tortured for all eternity if that is God’s will, right? So don’t tell me you didn’t say that, when you clearly did.

            And please stop with the projection. Thanks :-)

          • Praise God

            Yeap, still ignoring my questions….creeping around them I might add. And your not being closed minded at all right? Your not willing at all to allow anyone to believe what they want. Again, I NEVER stated once that you deserve eternal torture….you know this and are now reaching at straws…pretty desperately I might add. I NEVER said or referenced to people (OR YOU) being saved in Heaven or being tortured in HELL. Refer back to my posts…..the word Heaven nor Hell has been brought up once on my part. I don’t know what you deserve….I don’t know anything about you…so why would I make claims like this about you or anyone? Christians don’t need to research WHY they’re isn’t a GOD Dangerous Talk….or faith tells us their is and that’s all we need. This in fact drives you insane. You can’t nor ever will understand this and that’s fine. Your an atheist and don’t believe. Fine! I have no curiosity…I know who my Savior is…I don’t need to research who he is! If I am close minded….you in fact are just as closed minded as I am. You in fact can’t even conceive of it in your mind!! Ok, I will say for myself. I to cannot conceive of their not being a God. Your last paragraph here is just a bunch of lies that you’ve made up for your so called lost cause here. Again, look back at my post and PLEASE quote me where I’ve stated you deserved to be tortured for all eternity….PLEASE find it!! Yes, I am a Christian by definition, but my beliefs and personal opinions of things could be far different then what others believe. So stop putting words into my mouth.There are soooo many questions that you still have never answered here. How about the one about you possibly being responsible for someone who’s lost their way completely. Found this web site cause they possibly have cancer and are afraid. They believe in God but reading all your posts has caused them to lose all hope in anything and everything…..so they take their own life! If you found out someone did this after reading what you’ve posted here would you own that? A question still not answered. Many need hope in something…..if God is that hope….then you need to back off and allow that…..Projections?…..I could say the same….Thanks

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            So you don’t believe Hell exists? That’s great!! We have made some progress. I am so glad that you don’t believe anyone deserves to be tortured for all eternity.

            I am open to the possibility that your deity of choice might exist. I just ask for some valid evidence to support this claim. That is the opposite of close-minded. You on the other hand have stated that you could not even conceive of the possibility that you might be wrong and you are unwilling to even research or question your own beliefs. That is the very definition of close-minded and shows a lack of curiosity. Me, I go out of my way to research religious claims of various religions looking to prove myself wrong. Why? because I am curious about what other people believe and why they believe what they believe. I want to know. I what to understand the nature of reality and if I am wrong, I want to know it.

            I once did believe in God. I grew up with religious parents and was indoctrinated into religion just like most of the other people in the world. But because I was curious and open-minded, I looked into other religions and try to understand the world around me. What I found was that God almost certainly doesn’t exist.

            When I lost my faith, I was depressed and suicidal. So I know from first hand experience what you are talking about. But then I learned about the wonders of reality and now I am happier than I ever was as a religious person. The universe is so much more exciting and awesome than an the ancient myths of the Bible could have ever imagined.

            My heart goes out to all religious believers because you don’t know the awesomeness of reality. I urge you to watch the new Cosmos series on Fox to get a sense of just what you are missing.

            As for suicide, what do you care? You said yourself that you look forward to death and that you reject the belief that people will be tortured for all eternity in Hell. You said that no one deserves that and since God is infallible in your mind, no one will receive that. So wouldn’t suicide be great from your prospective?

            I hope no one kills themselves and I have lost a few friends to suicide so that is something I am painfully aware of first hand. But I don’t think people should live a dangerous lie. I want them to learn and grow as people. I want people to enjoy their life and make the world a better place for being alive. I encourage those who have recently lost their faith to start a journey of scientific discovery. Don’t kill yourself; take the first step into a much larger world.

          • Praise God

            Projections on your end…yet again. I never once claimed that Hell does or does not exist. Those are your words.So no, we in fact have made NO progress! You are opened to the fact that God does exist. Good. And by the way this doesn’t make you an atheist anymore, so you should call yourself something else. Atheist believe beyond a shadow of doubt there is absolutely NO GOD period! I’ve explained to you time and time again…I don’t NEED to research something that is instilled in my through my FAITH. Which is extremely large and can’t BE explained. You not understanding this, is PROOF that you in fact are the “closed minded” one in this debate. Again, in your “Projections” of me…look back again like I’ve asked you and find where I said I look forward to Death? I said I don’t fear death….there is a huge difference. Suicide IS NOT great from my prospective…..and your sick and insulting (yet again) for implying that about anyone! I watched Cosmos and wouldn’t feel like I was missing anything if I didn’t watch it……I think you should stop wasting your time here. So do the multitude of believers that have commented on this post and ALL the people at my work (they feel bad for you)……ALL Christians that think you need to get yourself a life. Go out and really start living that wonderful life you’ve created for yourself……as always God wants you back. And so do we.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Please clarify this once and for all. Do you or do you not believe Hell exists?

            Actually, you don’t understand the definition of atheism. I wrote about that here: http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/religion-101-what-is-the-difference-between-atheism-and-agnosticism

            But that’s okay, if you don’t want to call me an atheist I don’t really care. That’s just a label, not an identity. I don’t really care what label you want to use and still lack a belief in any deities. I have no evidence for any deities and as a result, I lack belief in them. Call that whatever you like. I call it atheism. I should also point out that everyone considers Richard Dawkins to be the most famous atheist and yet he holds the same position. My point is that you are using a strawman definition of atheism.

            I have de-converted many religious believers so I don’t think I am wasting my time at all. I think my time has been very productive. I have made the world a better place by helping those find their way out of ancient superstitions. You on the other hand are wasting your time since by your own admission you don’t believe you will change any minds. I think you can easily change my mind BTW. All you have to do is provide evidence for your claims. But you seem unwilling to do that. All you seem to be able to do is belittle me and brag about how dogmatic you are.

            I get it. You think I will never change your mind no matter how much evidence I present to you. You faith is like a rock and I am wasting my time. But you came here. You came to my site and you stayed. This means that you are here for a reason and that reason is that you know in your heart of hearts that you have doubts. The longer you stay the better. I encourage you to check out some of the other articles here by me and by other people.

          • Praise God

            LOLOL I came here by accident…..I stayed because of what the OTHER Christians were writing to you….which I loved reading by the way. I’m still here because we all find you such an amateur writer that hides behind and tip toes through all the questions you’ve been asked. I again, have NOTHING to prove to you. You seem to want to prove something to us all. And your failing in such an epic way. YOU STILL, have presented absolutely nothing to any of us. NOTHING. My faith is all the proof I need…..I don’t need to read any more of your articles (that by the why) are written very unprofessionally. I don’t believe for one minute you converted anyone…you go ahead and keep believing that too. I’m sure it helps you a little. Whether or not I believe in heaven or hell has no baring here. I have never been here to try and push my beliefs on anyone. That’s your job. Your very young we can all tell in your writing and communication skills. You hide behind remarks like “I don’t ridicule the believer, I ridicule their beliefs”. When you insult or criticize someones faith or beliefs…..you in fact ridicule the person….especially their religious or spiritual beliefs. It’s just common respect not to call their ways ridiculous, lies and untruths like you’ve stated in many posts. You in fact have belittled every Christian on this post and chose not to own it with YOUR “close minded” research and non proofs that you have claimed. Again, your writings are very unprofessional to say the least…..and EXTREMELY one sided. By the way, I don’t need to change peoples minds. People have the right to do that themselves…..and the majority want to and will and most will chose Jesus as you already know and have still yet to admit to all of us that there are many more Christians in the world then atheists. Can you admit to that? I didn’t think so…Again, you could probably change my mind too about all this….if you had proof in fact and your articles had some clout and meaning to them. Your articles are repetitious and boring. We learn nothing and nothing is proven STILL when we read them……sorry. Let’s hear some more tip toeing and side stepping now Dangerous Talk…..your so good at it.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I love this. Your comment is filled with hate and anger. I’m going to take a page from your book and assert that you are an angry person. As I said before, I have nothing to prove to you. I want you to prove to yourself. I want you to be curious about your own beliefs and about the world around you. I want you to go forth and learn about the world, your own beliefs, the beliefs of others, etc. I can’t give you all that education. You have to want to find it on your own. But if you are not interested in learning (as you stated) then I can’t help with that. Most people are curious and most people what to learn. You are not one of those people by your own admission and that is fine.

            Criticizing beliefs and ideas is not an attack on the person holding those beliefs and ideas. You claim it is and that is just silly. That means that anytime anyone is having any kind of meaningful discussion, they are attacking the other person. If your view is true, then you and all the other Christians in the comments here have done nothing but attack me. But that isn’t true. People can disagree about beliefs and ideas without it being a personal attack. No, a personal attack is about name calling and trying to smear the other person instead of defending the idea or belief in question. That is what you have done.

            This is a blog. It isn’t a formal publication. On my blog, I write off the cuff. When I write an article for Examiner or Huffington Post, I write more formally. You have read one article and called all my writing amateur. That’s fine, I can take your insult. But know that I know that it was intended as a personal attack rather than a substantive defense of your proposition. I see how you work. If you have no defense, then you just try to attack the person personally. I get it. I get that all the time from Christians and I forgive you for it.

            I also think it is hilarious that you assert that I am very young when you actually have no idea how young or old I am. You could have looked into my “about” section to get some kind of idea about my age, but nope. You didn’t even bother to do that. You just asserted a claim to be true. You seem to do that a lot. My age, God’s existence, etc. You could easily figure out my age if you did about five minutes of research, but we both know you aren’t going to do that. So I guess it will forever be a mystery to you. ;-)

            As a point of fact, I have de-converted many religious believers and I am proud of that fact. You can chose not to believe that and that’s cool. I have nothing to prove to you. I can’t wait because a few years from now, you will be one of the many people writing me to tell me how my blog was the first time you started to question your beliefs and how it had inspired you to research your own beliefs for yourself.

          • Praise God

            No my comments are full of hope and peace.Yes, you desperately have something to prove to me. I just don’t care about it and your trying to pretend that that doesn’t in fact infuriate you. I’m not caving into your scientific ideals and that’s driving you crazy….that’s why you keep commenting on my posts. I’m just seeing how long you’ll keep repeating yourself over and over again. I’m doing the same…..but not to prove anything…..I think it’s hysterical that you keep getting back to me….your trying to prove something and keep asking me to do the same. You DO have something your trying to prove and you know it…I have nothing to prove to you. I wouldn’t want you to educate me on anything…nor worries there. Why are you thinking I’m attacking you…..I’m simply debating with you as many are? Why are you taking it so personal? I have no desire AGAIN to know who you are or how old you are…..I just commented that you write like amateur which you do. Again, you haven’t de-converted anyone. You just believe that you have….LOLOL as far as making me question my beliefs on the comments you’ve written and claimed here? Your just not a convincing writer for that matter. Do you feel like that’s an attack on you personally? You shouldn’t. it’s just my personal opinion right? I have a right to that just like you do. I’m not attacking the person….I’m just criticizing his writing/work….not the person right?

          • Corey Firepony

            I’ve read through a bulk of the conversation. I don’t see that Dangerous Talk is tiptoeing or sidestepping questions. In fact, it appears to me that he’s already written and addressed most of these questions in a fair amount of detail in other posts. So, instead of retyping and rehashing his points, he’s simply referred you to those points so you may have a more in depth understanding to the questions you posed.

            Now then…Let me address a few more things…from a logical standpoint, criticizing a belief is not the same or equal to attacking a person. Let me demonstrate. If I want to criticize your belief in Jesus, and say it is unfounded based on the lack of evidence, and the overwhelming amount of counter evidence to support the position that it is highly improbable that Jesus was the son of god…that is a criticism of belief. If I were to say that since you believe in god; I think you are an uneducated, moronic baboon butt faced idiot for believing that…that is an attack on the person. To criticize that person, would be to say…you are disgusting because you worship a god who condones genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, bigotry…that is a criticism of your person.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          More projection. I don’t fear my death. I have faced death before and it doesn’t really scare me. I know when I die, I will be dead…. but, while you are looking forward to death, I am looking forward to life. I understand that this life is all we have and I want to enjoy life. I want to live life and experience the wonder that is the universe. I want to experience life now, while I am still alive to experience it. There is no later. Death is a part of life in that we experience the death of others in life. But death is not a part of life any more than “off” is a TV station.

          You claimed that there was no harm in believing in magical Jesus cures for cancer and other ailments. I presented you with evidence to the contrary and you have buried your head in the sand and refused to learn about it. This is not just a staggering lack of curiosity, it is also evidence of your fear. You fear that you might be wrong. You have now shown that you have doubts and that you aren’t as dogmatic as you claim to be. That’s awesome.

          You don’t have to prove your dogmatism to me. You can save face here and just tell me that you refuse to read about the Schaible kids… but you really should Google them and read about what happened to them and why. Educate yourself for your own curiosity (I refuse to believe that you have zero curiosity). Find out how faith killed these kids.

          Are you really going to tell me that it doesn’t bother you at all that kids die? You really don’t shed a tear? You feel nothing? Where is your sense of empathy? Where is your compassion? Learn about the Schaible kids. Do it for you! If your faith is really as strong as you claim, then you have nothing to fear from knowledge.

  • Praise God

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.John 3:16 It’s just that simple! Nothing to read into or try to figure out. We have questions, the worlds a mess, there’s evil everywhere! Yes there is. Where’s God in it all? Right smack dab in the middle of it. Why doesn’t he make himself appear and cure cancer, stop wars, famine etc? Does the saying, “You’ve made your bed etc.” you know the one….right? We have created our own demise not God. There is a price for sin…there always has been. Yes, we are forgiven of our sins if we repent….but there is still a price for that sin. It’s suffering….carrying our own crosses for a bit until He comes to take all Christians home. Non believers will tear you down and frustrate you with their words. The bible tells us that. Let them spew their radical thoughts and you just wait patiently for Him. He is coming!! And when he does….every eye will see Him in his glory, even the ones who did not believe. Don’t let non believers steal your joy and peace that God instills in you. It’s a waste of spirit…..and your time for that matter! God Bless….

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Why is there a price? Why did God create this elaborate scheme when he could just snap his imaginary fingers and make it happen? Why does blood atone for sin? Is God a vampire? I don’t get it.

      • Praise God

        Dangerous Talk: Your replies are very childlike. God is not a sorcerer or magician and not a vampire either. He doesn’t need are desire to PROVE Himself to you or anyone else for that matter. He has not created any elaborate scheme. You can either believe in Him or not. It’s your choice. And it really is that simple. If you don’t believe in him that’s fine. Why can’t you just be comfortable with that within yourself. Why the need to create a web site to try and disprove Christianity and belittle and degrade those that chose to believe and worship Him. You want everyone to GOOGLE everything. Many people have much better things to do then sit at a computer all day trying to prove to the world that God does or dose not exist……maybe your need to do this in fact is your way of really trying to connect with those of us that do believe because you really aren’t that sure yourself? You seem to be a bit obsessed with it all……and yes I agree with you….you really don’t get it! I’ll pray for you…:)

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          First, I want to again defend myself from your slander. I have not “belittled” or “degraded” anyone. On the other hand, you did just call me childish when I was asking some very serious questions. So maybe there is some projection going on here.

          Second, You asked before why I care and I gave you the answer. Here it is again: http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion

          No I don’t have a choice. I can’t make myself believe something on insufficient evidence. Can you will yourself to believe that dragons are real? I mean really believe it. No, you can’t. Again, in order to make an informed choice, I would first have to know God exists.

          Finally, It is an elaborate scheme. According to Christianity, because man sinned, there has to be a “price” and the currency that God needs is blood of an innocent lamb. But because our sins were so great, God created a son, allowed his son to be tortured for three days so that the blood of the son would atone for the sins of those who believe and worship the son. That’s an elaborate scheme. If God really wanted us to be forgiven, then BAM we would be. No muss no fuss. He’s allegedly God. He can allegedly do anything. So why the need for a price? why the need for blood as the currency? Why the need for divine blood? What is God’s obsession with blood? It seems very much like God is a vampire.

          These are serious questions. Don’t answer them for me; answer them for you! Why aren’t you asking these questions? Aren’t you curious about this stuff at all? I’m asking you to think critically about what you believe and why you believe it and you are calling me “childish” and then accusing me of belittling others when I am just asking honest questions.

          • Praise God

            The thing is Dangerous Mind. My faith in Jesus Christ is so strong I don’t need to ask any of these questions. That’s the difference between you and me. I’m not trying to answer questions for you. I’m asking why you needed to create this web site in the first place? God is the Son, the Son is God….you do understand that right? They are one in the same. Jesus became ALL SIN for you and me. The sacrifice was his death on a cross. Simple. Your the one obsessed with blood here. When someone is crucified on a cross…there is going to be some blood. Blood is a metaphor in the bible. Bringing up dragons and vampire to me seems a little childish….I’m sorry if you think that’s me slandering you. Your choice of words and explanations just seem odd to me.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            I find it odd that you ask me questions and then refuse to read my answers. You keep asking me why I bother to write about religion and why I bother to criticize religious beliefs. Here is your answer… again: http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion

          • Praise God

            Again, I don’t want to read your “Back Up” material that someone else wrote or what happened to “someone else”. I’m asking YOU….just YOU why the need for criticizing Christian beliefs and why you just can’t believe what you want to believe and leave others alone? Again!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            And I told you, I wrote a response to you and here is that response for the fourth time: http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion

            I wrote this!!!! This isn’t someone else’s words. They are my words. Read them!

          • Praise God

            Ok, read it! Still do not understand why you attack ALL Christians! You point the finger at us ALL in this piece. Claiming WE are forcing religion down atheists throats with our ridiculous claims. First of all, I hate ALL religions. Religions, ALL of them are man made. God did not create them. They are made up causing segregation between people and are our ideas of how WE think God wants us to worship him. They have caused wars, and countless deaths since the beginning. So this Christian you are debating with here does not believe in religion either. The one count you and I can agree on here. My beliefs are plainly and simply spiritual. I don’t practice any denomination. I do not have rules and regulations set upon me of how I worship God. I simply believe in God because I chose to. Just like you chose not to. Your “ELVIS” parable is not very convincing of anything. Elvis was a rock n roll star that died on a toilet because he was a drug addict. Your entire article could be turned around as a Christian trying to convince Atheists that God is in fact real. This is a futile fight for you! You are never going to convince any true believer that God doesn’t exist. I agree, many Christians go over board, trying to shove their beliefs also down peoples throats. This can’t be done either. It’s a simple choice. A spiritual one. But if we chose it we shouldn’t be made to feel the way you try to make people feel on this site. That’s wrong! People have been fighting and debating this and politics for ever…..why are you wasting your time? Believe or don’t believe….it doesn’t matter to me at all I really I don’t care. I just wish YOU didn’t care so much that I and millions upon millions of others DO! You want us all to research, educate ourselves, giving us sites to go to so we can get this information….It means WAY TO MUCH TO YOU Dangerous Talk. Your having to work way to hard to try and convince us all that we are “crazy” as you’ve stated. So, I’ve read YOUR WORDS, still not convinced. Sorry….you still as of yet haven’t explained your need to attack and why this site is necessary?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            First, you have continued to lie about me “attacking” people when I have not done that at all. At first, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and defended myself against your false allegations with the assumption that you didn’t realize you were making a false accusation. But now it is clear that you know it is a false accusation and yet you are continuing to make it. So now it fits into the category of lying.

            Second, you have repeatedly asked me why I bother to criticize religion and I presented you with my answer. Religion is causing great harm and in order to make the world a better place for me, those I care about, and for humanity, I feel that it is important to criticize the bad and destructive ideas of religion. You even agreed with me that religion was bad. So I don’t see why you are pretending that you don’t understand. You clearly do.

            Third, I have heard this argument before. You are not religious, you are a follower of Christ, right? Bill O’Reilly said the same thing. I hear that a lot from Christians who often turn around and assert that atheism is a religion. This is how screwed up religion is. It can trick people into thinking that Christianity isn’t a religion and atheism is one. How messed up is that? I mean think about that for just a minute. The group of people that have churches on almost every street corner in the country, gets tax-exempt religious status for their churches, and worship at least weekly to a deity is really not a religion? But atheism, which is defined as a lack of belief in deities is a religion? Really? Well, at least we can agree that religion is a bad thing. I guess that is progress. Now on to faith. ;-)

        • Tim Tian

          What he was saying, I believe is that if an all good entity can make something better without effort then why doesn’t he?

  • Ned Carter

    Delusional Christians and their feeble justifications for disease and sickness and pain and suffering. I am pretty sure all sin was washed away by the death of Christ, so all of your arguments that evil, death, sickness and disease are from Original Sin are false according to your doctrine. If we set that aside, for those who say that you have to REALLY, REALLY BELIEVE (meaning if you get sick and die, you just didn’t pray hard enough, vomit), there is no loving hand in this world. There is no God intervening and saving those that are innocent of sin (and FUCK YOU if you think a baby with lukemia deserves it because your jealous asshole of a God has saddled all of humanity with punishment for the mistakes of HIS flawed creation), there is no divine purpose, no divine anything. You people rush to defend a snake oil salesman because he sells you the lies you prefer over the truths you cannot accept. You waste your lives worshiping words written by men, and the promise of a better life after this one. You piss your lives away while waiting and worshiping death. You call us afraid, we are not afraid, we do not fear the unknowable, we simply do not assign fairy tales to make it more appeasing, that is what the fearful do. And another thing about fear… YOUR religion is terror incarnate… DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR BURN FOREVER, and you claim your worship is not fearful?

    Believe whatever garbage you wish, infect your children with the fever of its terror and the promise of eternal bliss or damnation depending on the mood of your temper-mental childlike deity. But do not expect everyone to respect it when it is bandied about as an alternative to medicine, or science UNTIL you have positive evidence. Do not think that people will sit idly by as you try and inject your vile, foolishness into public education and secular government. We do not force you to be vaccinated, go to a doctor, preach evolution in your church, or accept taxation for your political stances as churches. So stop thinking that your religion deserves a privileged place in our nation, it does not. It is as valid as Islam, Judaism, Paganism, and the guys that drank koolaid to ride the comet with the aliens.

  • Ben Tousey

    At times like this I like to quote the Apostle Paul: “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I
    reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood
    behind me.”
    For the first time in my life I agree with him. It’s time to put aside these bronze-age superstitions and move forward.
    There’s a lot of talk on this page about “beliefs,” and we need to address that… your beliefs aren’t sacred because you have them. In fact, beliefs lead us wide open to be taken advantage of or misled… which can even be fatal. The whole reason that con-artists like this survive is that all he has to do is rely on people’s “belief” since they aren’t going to challenge his facts. Whenever facts conflict with belief, belief wins most of the time. This is troubling, but to some degree it’s neurological. Part of the way our minds have been constructed over the generations is to use beliefs to help us cope with the billions of bits of information that are coming to us constantly.
    The comment was made–derisively–that atheists don’t “believe” in anything. Well, that’s the goal. We try NOT to believe in anything. We search for evidence, observation, data, trends… as “adults,” who have put aside childish ways, we seek to understand our universe, not superimpose our ideologies all over it. This means that we are going to spend our time in that barrier between what’s known… and what’s not known… This isn’t an easy place to live, but it’s the only way we will ever know the world in which we live.
    I am constantly asked if I believe in god, and my first response is: “It depends on how many martinis I’ve had.” But my other, serious response is this: “It doesn’t matter what I believe. If there’s a god, it exists independently of what I believe. If there isn’t a god, it doesn’t exist independently of what I believe. My ‘beliefs’, then, are irrelevant.”
    The real, and dangerous point being made her is that as long as we hold our “beliefs” sacred, we open the door to shysters like this, using our ignorance for financial gain, and in the meant time creating havoc in their wake. Our society stands on the brink, because of those who glorify belief and attack scientific method. This is dangerous… individually, and collectively. And god or no god, the outcome will be disaster.

  • Your Laughable!!!

    You are a silly little atheist now aren’t you?!

  • Stephen B

    Coming to an Atheist blog and ridiculing him because of his lack of faith in God can’t be your idea of making the most of your time can it? Eph. 5:16 DT- I apologize for some of the un-Christian comments that have come your way from those who profess Christ as Lord. It isn’t how we are called to treat others. I understand your position and though I have come to believe differently than you do I still believe that there is much to be learned by both of us. Keep writing and searching for the truth. Oh and I agree about the huckster trying to sell his book about Mt. 4.

  • squint9

    This is hilarious. A fellow who doesn’t believe there is a God engaging in endless — and pointless? — banter about God (which doesn’t exist but apparently must be discussed ad nauseum).

    Dude. Why not expend all this energy on something the world really needs … like developing a cost-effective support mechanism for homeless people. Or a more secure system to protect battered spouses from their batterers. Or helping addicts to recover so they can return to their families and society (like AA, etc.).

    Right now, at least according to a lot anecdotal evidence, churches are the most effective forces in these areas. We can’t have that, can we? We need to get the Atheists out there doing these kinds of humanitarian efforts even better … that’ll show those silly folks from the church on the corner how it’s done! Yeah.

    And, no, the government doesn’t count. All that government does is create red tape and waste. Like how “cheap” and wonderful ObamaCare was going to be. LOL

    No. You’ll have to rally the troops and get’er done yourself. And don’t follow PETA’s model either. Those poor trust-funders can’t tell the difference between human life and ant life; usually to the detriment of both! LOL

    Well, anyhow. There you have it. Now, as they say, “Go forth and multiply!” or “May the farce be with you!” or “Sic’em!” (as the Rottweiler owner down the block is fond of saying when her neighbor’s kids walk by). LOL

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      “Dude. Why not expend all this energy on something the world really needs … like developing a cost-effective support mechanism for homeless people. Or a more secure system to protect battered spouses from their batterers. Or helping addicts to recover so they can return to their families and society (like AA, etc.).”

      I expend energy on this because it is important. Here is why: http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion

      Support mechanism for the homeless – Done – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/30/utah-homelessness-rate-plummets_n_987695.html

      secure system to protect battered spouses – Done – raise the minimum wage!

      Help addicts to recover – Done – http://www.sossobriety.org/home.html

      “We need to get the Atheists out there doing these kinds of humanitarian efforts even better” I agree with you on this one. we do have a few groups doing this now, but they are small and need more of our support. Check out Atheists Giving Aid and Foundation Beyond Belief. I just participated in a 24-hour Podcast-a-thon to raise money for the Foundation Beyond Belief. It is a great organization and they need your help.

      • squint9

        You are a funny guy … housingworks? The link doesn’t exist (it 404s). Are you sure it wasn’t a Huffington parody piece? Reddit had some funny comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1tapnj/til_utah_is_on_track_to_end_homelessness_by/ I went over to utah.gov’s chat line and they know nothing about the program either. They suggested I call 211. They did locate a Federal program that Obama signed in 2009 ( American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 ) that included $1.5B of taxpayer’s money for the Homelessness Prevention and Rapid Re-Housing Program (HPRP). Maybe Utah used it’s share for homeless people. The ARRA program was only funded through 2012.

        As for additions … _another program_? You guys never heard of AA? LOL Just kidding … glad to see you’re helping out …

        and I know it isn’t always easy because some of more fanatical amongst you … er, crusaders, if you will — have made a lot of people uncomfortable trying to convince people that atheism is the on true path to … well, happiness, I guess — and so some folks are just a little standoffish when a whole group of atheists appear at the door with a check …

        http://www.religionnews.com/2013/12/19/season-giving-atheist-groups-charity-rebuffed/

        Now. I don’t “hate” atheists. I will admit the “dyed-in-the-wool” variety do amuse me somewhat … but not for the reasons you think, I imagine. One of my best friends is an avowed atheist and former pastor; so I figure he knows what he’s talking about … though I still kid him from time to time … and we’re still friends! C’est la vie! LOL

        My POV is that if you have a relationship with Jesus, then you have one. If you don’t then you don’t. If you’re worried about the afterlife, you should latch onto a religion and go along. If not, then it matters not what religion or non-religion, if you will, you select. The Ten Commandments are a pretty good idea for everyone; atheists can skip the first couple, of course, but so what, no skin off their noses, right? Have to do … kids are home … have a great day!

  • PLOTCH

    There is an age old question, “Why is there something rather than nothing?” After many much research, no one can really answer the question with any certainty. Until then, I leave it to my opnion on the subject, that since nothing can come from nothing, something far greater than us, (and we do not know what that something is) leaves open the door that if we could find that something our answer to the question will come to us.

    Bottom line is, everyone has an opinion and belief in what they feel is the true truth of it all. I will leave it at that, listen to the opinions of others, but in the end when I look in the mirror I know what I believe in.

    I am glad that others can use the Internet to voice their beliefs and opinions in the spirit of the search for what is out there.

    Blows the mind that is for sure.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Here is the issue I have here. Not all “opinions” are equal. You say that you don’t know how something can come from nothing, therefore you will just accept any made-up answer. That is what has been called the “God of the Gaps” and those gaps are getting smaller and smaller all the time. As it turns out, there has been some research into this issue and do you know what scientists have figured out? That something can come from nothing after all. It happens all the time on the quantum level. Dr. Lawrence Krauss wrote a great book on this topic called, ‘The Universe from Nothing.” You should check it out.

  • Trish Winter

    Wow, I’m sure that a true Christian who is following the tenets of the Bible would not attack someone who does not share her/his belief as a way to validate his/her own feelings of righteousness. The Bible clearly indicates that Christians should hate the sin but love the sinner. I do not see how you are following the good book with your statements below. You are setting a disgraceful example of Christianity by posting such hateful comments on this blogpost. You would be better served by spending your time reading the book rather than choosing to spew your vitriol which in fact makes Christianity and Christians look bad. Blessed are the meek, the poor in spirit, the persecuted. You are none of those things and will clearly not be among the blessed if you continue to act in a way that disgraces the religion you purport to believe. Oh and if you think you are being persecuted because someone chooses to write about his own personal beliefs then you are an ignorant and sheltered person who needs to look up what the word persecuted means!

  • Ron Johnson

    To all atheists, none of you have any evidence that God does not exist! First of all how do explain the laws and natural desire for justice? Do you mean to tell me that Hitler can kill six million Jews and all that happens to him is he gets vaporized by some bombs and goes back into the cosmic molecular circuit? What about the monsters who raped 10 yr old girls in Africa during the Hutu/Tutu thing and then after raping them, they sawed off their legs! Oh they will just die and become fertilizer like Jane Fonda says is going to happen! No , there is a judgement day coming and believe me there is a heaven and hell and you’ll all find out!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Shocker, another threat.

      I’m going to ignore the hate spewing from you and just address the argument. You mean to tell me the Hitler killed six million Jews and because he was a Catholic and asked Jesus to forgive his sins he will spend eternity in Heavenly bliss while all the Jews he murdered will be tortured for all eternity in Hell because they did not believe Jesus was their lord and savior?

    • Tim Tian

      Firstly, Hitler did not get vaporised, he shot himself

      Secondly, as I have to keep repeating, Burden of proof is on the proponent and not the sceptic

      Thirdly, argumentum ad consequentiam = not valid

  • Praise God

    I finally clicked the “about” button below. Now everything makes perfect sense to me. Crystal clear…lolol Thanks for all the fun! I won’t waste your time anymore…..promise!!! ;)

  • elo

    Two years back, my Dad got really sick with Brain tumor, cancer and was in severe depression but with his constant faith in our Lord he would go to church everyday to pray for a cure. Even on days he could not manage he would go. So him was introduce to the Rick Simpson Cannabis oil by his church member who gave him a contact to purchase the medication on:
    ([email protected]) I would often wonder how he did it. I did not fully understand what depression was.I did not think it was that serious.On some days, after he came home from work, he would just go to sleep.But we would pray everyday and say the holy rosary and go to church and pray. he had also gone to the doctor and his medication bills were very expensive,so he decided to stop and focus on the Rick Simpson Cannabis Oil medication which we have purchase from Rick Simpson he had to take a lot of medicines an sometimes they would cause negative effects.But soon enough after complete his treatment plan of 3 months that was recommended for him by Rick Simpson, My father is now finally healthy and his Brain tumor is gone. no longer depressive,the doctor said that he was ok now and in perfect health. We praise and thank the lord for delivering him from Brain Tumor and depression through the help of Rick Simpson Cannabis oil that we have purchase from Rick Simpson at
    ([email protected]) Our Lord works and cares for us and his miraculous ways are to be truly praised.

  • The Swamp Angel

    Hmmmm. . . You’re not very well read for someone who claims that Bible is fiction. I suppose you also believe that the entire of the universe originated from a point in space that is smaller than an atom which suddenly and for no apparent reason exploded and became everything. (Seems to me that atheism requires much greater faith and belief in the supernatural than religion does.) But I’m not here to attack your ill-conceived beliefs. I’m actually here to agree with you regarding this bogus claim that there is some “secret Bible code” that tells us how to cure cancer.

    First off, a big clue that this is a load of horse-hockey is the long introduction that pussyfoots around the premise, building suspense with a long introduction that repeats itself and never provides any real information. We all know that if there were truly some great revelation regarding a cure for cancer, there would be no long introduction trying to convince people of the truth of the “message that you are about to hear in a moment.”

    The persons claiming this “Bible cure” for cancer are every bit the atheist that you purport to be, and they are preying upon weak-minded individuals who believe religion to be filled with mysticism and secret codes hidden away in ancient writings. Essentially, the only folks who will be duped by this are those who have never read or studied their Bible.

    The Bible, as we have it today, was not written to provide cures for disease or solve all the difficulties of this life. It was written to show man that he has erred, that he has transgressed the laws of the one supreme God, and that he is guilty of doing wrong. But it’s message does not end there. The great message of the Bible has nothing to do with health, wealth, or mysticism. The great message of the Bible is that God has provided a way by which we may be redeemed and enjoy life eternal in His presence.

    This is great news if you’re looking for our whole reason for existence in the first place. It is offered freely and each person has the opportunity to accept or reject it. In the end, if you are right and we both live our happily as we follow our beliefs, when we die, we are dead all over and there is nothing more. We will have both lived fulfilling lives in our own respects and that, according to the core of the idea of atheism, is the goal. Well then, all is good in that respect. But, on the other hand, if there is indeed a God, and the books that make up what we call the Bible are indeed His words. . . Well, then. . . Things don’t look so good for the atheist.

    I shan’t attempt to force you into my way of thinking. You are able to make up your own mind and accept or reject any idea you choose. That’s what free will is all about. But I must confess that it strikes me odd that you are so devout and zealous in your own religion of atheism that are driven to denounce and ridicule folks who don’t share your belief. (That smacks of hypocrisy to me.)

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      I addressed most of your issues and more in the Atheism 101 section located at the top of the page. I hope you will check it out.
      In Reason,
      -Staks

  • LeighAnn

    Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD, including yours dear atheist friend. You can happily do your own thing but on the day of judgment (and you will be judged by GOD, not man) it will be too late to acknowledge what others already acknowledge and that is everything that people have told you is true. JESUS is alive. I will continue to pray for you even when you claim to not want it or need it.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Wow, so you would worship a deity that would force others to worship him? You would believe in a deity that would allow for the eternal torture of everyone who refuses to believe on insufficient evidence?

      • https://twitter.com/#!/zerses Moirrainefortruth

        You undid your comment and your whole concept of God.

        You believe that God forces humans whom He created to do an action, any action – you believe any God would force humans to love Him?
        You have missed why Jesus Christ came here.

        He is the one who gave you the CHOICE to come to Earth – HE gave you the opportunity to have what you did not have in our Father’s courts on high, a physical body.

        We matured and we asked our Father for a body – He told us there would be pain, death, sorrow, love, challenge, joy, wonder and devastation – but as spirits we could not comprehend the words since we did not posses a body yet.

        Our Father, fully a flesh and bone person, asked for a plan, just a plan from His own children – and in those courts on high we sat in councils discussing and even arguing some of the points here.

        One wanted us all to go back to our Father – not one would be lost, all would come back to our Father with full body and Spirit united in a forever body. The catch? He wanted the glory – He FORCED His will onto His brothers and sisters, literally, and they went to war with the other force.
        That other force is Jesus Christ, the Firstborn of us all, our literal Brother and Savior. His plan was better but full of choice and sorrows that go with freedom of will.

        He laid out a plan whereby man would have a body, but he would forget his station and his family – a veil was set over his eyes and mankind, not very slowly, lost touch with Jesus Christ and the angels who ministered to Adam, Eve and their posterity for generations.

        The plan gave all men freedom of will – to do unto others, good or ill, as they saw fit, and that meant that some will be harmed by indivuduals not by God, but by we who have been given a choice and precious gift, the gift of free will, wereby mankind is the author of his own destiny unless and until He has the moral latitude to ask His own Father for blessings needed to prosper and not be left in the dust in sorrow and pain over abuses and ills visited upon others.

        Hitler used his free will. Mao used his free will. The Romans used their free will to decimate like the others and not one of them believed in God – if they had they would not have done what they did.

        The heinous things that mankind has done without the guidance from above is really dumb when you think about it, all we have to do is ask and our Father will grant us peace, health, forgiveness for our mistakes so we can grow, and blessings we can’t even begin to imagine in our small and infantile state – we are infants who should have learned to listen to our elders by now…

        What we are seeing is the degradation of the world, loss of technology while some is gained (best of times, worst of times), wars and rumors of wars foretold centuries before we arrived to this state to screw up Liberty and God’s choicest land.

        Evidence isn’t God.. Faith is God… Faith without works is DEAD.

        I pray you learn someday.

        *My Father is a personage I know is there and I know loves me as an individual and knows me far better personally than I could ever know myself.*

        Faith is belief in things not seen but hoped for. It’s not hard to love a God who gives His only Begotten son to die for us – he gave up His life, so unselfishly and with so much compassion for the sins He knows we can overcome.

        I wonder how many atheists have babies or have had one die…

        One can’t think of babies not having the opportunity to grow up in that body, perfect and unmarred by mortal imperfections only to sparkle at the end of that life and become one with body and spirit without death’s sting.

        I see what I was allowed to see and feel – anyone can – all one need do is just ask – in the name of Jesus Christ – because He is the key to the lock called Eternity.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          First, I would like to set the record straight here. I don’t believe God forces humans to do anything nor do I believe God forces humans to love him. I don’t believe any of it. There is no valid evidence that God even exists. None of this is real. It is all fiction. I’m sorry if that offends you. That is not my intention.

          Second, according to this fictional story, the fictional character of God is all-powerful. So why create such an elaborate scheme? You went into some detail about how God went about creating a solution to a problem that 1. he created (according to the story) and 2. that he could have solved with a whim rather than an elaborate scheme.

          Third, you say it is my choice, but how can I make an informed choice with I do not have any valid evidence that any of this is actually real? You can’t make an intelligent choice unless you have accurate information. If I told you to vote for either Bob or John from present without telling you anything about either candidate, then it isn’t a fair vote.

        • Tim Tian

          Nice Essay.

  • Holly

    Jesus and the bible are Judeo Christian MYTH!

  • The Reader

    a shame this author can’t understand that alternative and homeopathic treatments work. I wonder how this person can explain why the ‘experts’ never cure anyone of anything. A society of non-believers think there is no one higher than themselves. It is the reason so many young people are committing suicide with the use of heroin. Disgusting take on health from this so called ‘atheist’ expert.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Very friendly. Thanks! :-)

  • John Williams

    Do you know that there is a great Herbal doctor who can cure any deadly disease. Like Cancer, Hiv, syphilis, madness, low spam count e.t.c. Well my main reason why i am writing this right now is to inform the whole world about the great deeds, Dr. Ariba did for me. I was diagnosed of this deadly disease in the year 2000 ever since then i was taking my medications, until i met the great spell caster, though i never believed in spell. I saw many testimonies on how a great spell caster cured their deadly diseases. I contacted him through his phone number. I called him, he asked me to send him my email, which i did. He gave me a form to fill, I filled it and send it back to him. He told me that his god’s required some items in which he will use in casting a curing spell on me. I don’t know where to find the items he required. He told me that the only alternative is for of to send him the money, then he can help me to purchase the items from the items sellers. I promised myself to do anything to get cured. I sent him the money. He bought the items and casted a curing spell on me. Two day later he asked me to go for check-up, when i did the check-up i was tested HIV Negative. If you passing through hardship and you need a way out, kindly contact him via his email on [email protected] or call his number on +2348163979933

  • RickRayFSM

    I luv how present day Christians argue with Atheists of which 80% used to be staunch Christians. Oh well, evolution is a slow process !

  • Susan BetzJitomir

    God loves everyone, even atheists. In fact he loves them just as much as he loves Christians, which is just as much as he loves Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Earth mother worshipers, Satanists, etc. He wants everyone to come to Him. One does not convince anyone of the error of their ways through ridicule. Atheists claim to be able to live a moral life without God, then insult as many people as they can find with their name calling and superior attitude. We Christians are often no better. To Staks Rosch I say: I’m sorry that you feel as you do. You should know that all Christians do not support Dr. Stengler’s interpretation of Matthew 4, and Dr. Stengler’s interpretation is not the fault of all religious people, therefore it seems inappropriate to insult all religious people in your argument against the dangerous message of this book. To some of my fellow Christian posters below I say: Staks Roch and people like him will be less likely to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ if the only Jesus they see is the time you showed anger in a comment post instead of love. Yes Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, but that was once in his whole life, teaching us that anger may be appropriate sometimes, the times should be rare, or only once. Back to Roch: As to needing faith because there is no evidence, you are perhaps unfamiliar with Biblical archeology, the observer effect in quantum physics, and the fact that Genesis and the Big Bang theory with evolution recount creation happening in the same order, that trees and many other things that seem random actually follow a fractal equation pattern, implying a planner and a plan. I don’t NEED evidence, but not because evidence is lacking, but because I know what happened to me when I was saved. If you have not been, you have no basis judging the experience of those who have.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      You certainly put a lot on the table. I will try to answer as much as I can, but I have already addressed these issues in the other comments and in the Atheism 101 series at the top of the page.

      It is my few that God doesn’t love anyone because God doesn’t exist. However, the character of God as written about in the Bible doesn’t seem to love everyone either considering that he either sends or allows the eternal torture of billions of people all for the crime of not worshiping his son as a god.

      You accuse atheists of name calling and having a “superior attitude,” but if you read through the comments of just this article alone, you will see the opposite is true. I called one person out of about one hundred commentors “stupid” after being provoked. Yet I have been threatened, name called, and belittled and falsely accused of belittling others by just about every Christian who has commented here (yourself included).

      As for superior attitude, again I reject that stereotype. I’m not the one telling people that I have a monopoly on the truth. I’m not the one telling people that they deserve to be tortured for all eternity. I’m not the one claiming to have all the answers or claiming to speak for the creator of the universe. No, I’m the one calling bullshit on that. I’m not one claiming that I don’t have all the answers and that we need the scientific process to help use figure out fact from fiction. I’m not claiming to be chosen by God to spread his message correctly. That’s a pretty superior attitude and I would certainly not go there. I am not claiming to represent all atheists or even all True Atheists and yet there are Christians here who are claiming to represent the one True interpretation of God’s divine word. If that isn’t a superior attitude, then I don’t know what is.

      I also never claimed that this one Doctor represents all Christianity. No, but I do think that the concept of faith makes it easier for this doctor to scam Christians. If you reject reason and logic as a way to understand the world, then there really is no bounds of reason and people will accept anything as true.

      I am actually very familiar with Biblical Archaeology. I even posted a link to from Snopes debunking the claim that we found Noah’s Ark. We haven’t. In fact, we haven’t found a single artifact that confirms any supernatural claims made in the Bible and biblical archaeology has already shown that the Exodus never happened and now there is serious questioning of the historicity of Jesus.

      Quantum Mechanics only works on the quantum level. It is not evidence for God. The Bible says nothing about the Big Bang and Genesis talks about how light was created before the Sun and women came from the rib of a man. The Bible is not a science book and it certainly isn’t a history book. It’s a big fail in those departments.

      I’m not questioning what happened to you. I don’t know what happened to you. I just don’t think you are ascribing the correct cause to the effects.

  • http://adhdcommunity.boards.net/ Amtram

    Well, if it’s homeopathic, then fasting will make you extremely full and well-nourished.

  • Whatever

    Now look, I’m not a fan of Bible-thumping myself but everyone is
    entitled to his/her beliefs. I believe in God, but I see it more as a
    personal thing than something I need to be shouting at people, or
    constantly trying to justify to every person in the world. If you truly
    believe something, you don’t need to seek justification or trivialize
    the beliefs of others.

    That being said though, if anybody fits the bill of “shouting at
    people” or “trying to justify their views to everyone” it’s Atheists by a
    HUGE landslide. It also doesn’t help that Atheism is constantly framed
    as the only “intelligent” view, as if people who believe in God are
    incapable of being intelligent individuals.

    This doesn’t apply to ALL Atheists mind you, as I know there are many
    who are respectful and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just the
    obnoxious arrogant ones who like to marginalize every religious person,
    trivialize every religious belief and get offended by every mention of
    “God” ever uttered. The unfortunate thing is that these hateful and
    spiteful Atheists, in particular, constantly seem to make up the
    majority.

    Atheists will claim that very same thing about believers as
    justification for their behavior, but I simply don’t see it. In fact,
    I’m almost convinced that these Atheists are more obsessive about other
    people’s religious views than many religious people themselves. I know
    many people who have their beliefs, but it seems like Atheists are the
    only ones who are basically a hardware tool away from literally trying
    to hammer their views into my head. By Crudo Found this interesting….and very true.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk
      • Whatever

        I will simply use one of the sentences quoted in the first paragraph I posted above to reply to this: “If you truly believe something, you don’t need to seek justification or trivialize the beliefs of others”.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          And I will simply refer you again to the article above which outlines why atheists care about religion. Instead of asserting accusations based on personal bias it might be more constructive to actually listen to what others have to say. I urge you to read the above article from my Atheism 101 Series. Thanks!

          • Whatever

            I did read it. Actually, I read a lot of your topics on Atheism 101 and after I read most of them I simply wrote this quote and I will refer to it again, “If you truly believe something, you don’t need to seek justification or trivialize the beliefs of others”. So I did actually listen to what you had to say didn’t I? And I don’t believe I accused you of anything based on my personal beliefs or yours. And no, Thank You

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Since the article refutes your point, you clearly didn’t internalize the article’s meaning. So let me put it simply for you. As an atheist, I have to educate religious believers about the ridiculousness of their beliefs because it has a direct impact on my well-being, the well-being of my loved ones, and the well-being of all humanity. The Abrahamic religions are a direct threat to human happiness, human progress, and human survival. It isn’t about justifying my non-belief; it is a matter of self-defense.

          • Whatever

            I didn’t know that I had a point to refute here. So, is it ok for believers to feel the same of your beliefs because they feel it has a direct impact on their well-being , the well-being of their loved ones and the well-being of all humanity? Or is that just a ridiculous concept to you also? My point is. Your do in fact trivialize and criticize those who do not believe and see things your way. There is a right and wrong way to do this. I believe you have chosen the latter.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            First, you claim that it is mostly atheist pushing our non-belief much more than it is theists pushing their belief. This is obviously refuted in my article. The reason why atheists are vocal at all about our non-belief is because theists have to push their beliefs all the time. You can’t even take out a one dollar bill without experiencing religious believers pushing their beliefs. Have you ever met an atheist who seriously argued for changing the national motto to “In No Gods We Truth”? Of course not. So that point has been refuted.

            Second, you claim, “If you truly believe something, you don’t need to seek justification or trivialize the beliefs of others.” So let me ask you, is it atheists who are known for going door-to-door on Saturdays or Christians? Is it atheists or Christians who have our “holy” buildings on nearly every street corner and have them chime every hour? Is it atheists or Christians who try to force belief/unbelief into law? Again this point has been refuted.

            Forcing your beliefs on others doesn’t help your well-being. It restricts the freedom of others. I respect everyone’s right to believe whatever they want no matter how sane or ridiculous those beliefs might be. However, I reserve the right to at the very least be critical of those beliefs and to even ridicule those beliefs (not the believers) when I feel it is appropriate. No one has a problem ridiculing Tom Cruise’s beliefs, but when it is your silly beliefs, you freak out. Maybe if you don’t want your beliefs to be ridiculed, you will stop holding to such ridiculous belief without sufficient evidence.

            If you want to criticize or ridicule my beliefs, have at it hoss. Maybe you will make a good point and I will change my beliefs. I’m open to changing my beliefs if presented with valid evidence and reasons for doing so. I encourage criticism of my beliefs. That is a good way of testing my beliefs to make sure they are indeed valid beliefs to hold. If they are not valid beliefs to hold, I will change my beliefs to fit the current evidence.

            Yes I do “trivialize and criticize” beliefs not people that are not supported by the evidence. We live in the information age and in such an age, ignorance is a choice. The scientific method has provided us with the tools to distinguish fact from fiction. If you reject those tools than there are literally no bounds of reason. How can you distinguish fact from fiction? If someone offered to sell you a bridge, how can you determine that they are trying to scam you?

          • Whatever

            And yet again, you have made my original point very clear. Your a very transparent individual. You give good, decent capable atheists that can discuss their views in a non critical manner, a truly bad name. This doesn’t represent them I’m sure the way they would prefer to be represented. I have many atheist friends and family members. None of them have ever spoken to anyone the way you do. Good luck with your converting……cause your going to need it.

          • Nicole

            You literally make absolutely no sense at all……literally. You babble when you write. Have at it Hoss? Church’s ringing their church bells at every corner? Where the hell do you live? Christians selling door to door? I haven’t had someone knock on my door selling religion in years. Just because you write it and it’s in the articles you write, it’s been refuted huh?You don’t respect peoples rights to believe what they want. You make fun of them with your ridiculous parables and then try to justify those parables by tip toeing around “their” questions wanting them to always refer to your “Atheist 101″ here say. Claiming that people are ignorant because they don’t believe in your beliefs and you can’t convince them of the difference here is quit obvious. When you get it through your thick skull that Faith doesn’t require evidence……only then will all your ridicule and intolerance for anyone who thinks differently then you end and you can put a stop to all this endless bantering you’ve created for yourself. Your not just a pain for believers to have to listen to…..your a disgrace for all atheists also. As Whatever stated…..there is a right way and a wrong way to debate. You clearly need advice from a well rounded atheist that respects and can have an adult conversation with another human being. Their out there…..I also know many. This is not how they convey their beliefs to others.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Says the person who belittles and name-calls instead of addressing the actual points being made.

            I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia and yes there are churches on almost every street corner and yes they ring their bells constantly. Several times I have had religious believers knocking on my door pushing their faith. Personally, I love it. I always invite them in and love to talk to them. The other day I even had a religious believer attempt to proselytize to me while I was at work and that wasn’t even the first time it happened. I wrote about the experience and you can check out that post in the sidebar.

            Here is the thing. Most Christians haven’t talked to atheists about religion before and so you use arguments that have long been refuted. i literally hear the same refuted arguments all the time and that is why i started the Atheism 101 Series so that I could address the most common arguments with greater depth instead of just re-writing the same thing over and over again. I’m not asking you to take me at my word on anything. I hope you don’t. I hope you will take what I have said and do your own research on it. Be skeptical! not just about what I have to say, but about what your own religion preaches. Google is your friend. So yes, when I hear Pascal’s Wager for the hundredth time, I’m just going to refer you to my detailed response – http://www.examiner.com/article/atheism-101-refuting-pascal-s-wager or challenge you to Google it yourself.

            When I hear that atheists are just angry at God for the billionth time, I’m going to refer you to the research done on this and my own research into that study – http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/atheism-101-are-atheists-angry-with-god

            Why is that a bad thing? Do you expect me to re-write a response to every argument or question from scratch to every single person who e-mails me or comments too me? I get a lot of e-mails and comments and I try to give respect and detail to everyone as much as I can.

            Again, I am not trying to force you not to believe what you want to believe. I don’t support any attempt to compel people by law to be atheists. I am not trying to push atheism onto our money or into our national motto. I would not vote for a politician who wanted to do those things (as if any such politician could even run in this country). Yet Christians are trying to force everyone to believe as they do through the legal system. I am simply treating religious claims and ideas the same way I treat political claims and ideas. Again, Christians don’t have a problem mocking Islam and Scientology, but when anyone attempts to criticize their beliefs then we are labeled as evil, hateful, devil worshipers who deserve to be tortured for all eternity. That’s great. Maybe atheists aren’t the angry ones. Maybe you should look in the mirror.

  • Butayl

    I can only say, “If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. If you are wrong, you have lost everything!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      I can only say, “Google Pascal’s Wager” so many times.

      • Whatever

        Butayl’s comment is in fact exactly the argument of “Pascals’s Wager”. So, they are obviously familiar with it……that comment goes both ways…from believer to non believer and vise versa…..so why the big debate here? There is no wrong or right.

  • Max

    Well,, if you dont see your own brain that means it doesnt exist.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Wow. well I guess there is no valid evidence for a brain in some people. ;-)

  • Violet Bells
  • anaverageman

    So I started reading the comments, then I saw how many there were. My conclusion from what I scanned is that; there are an awful lot of angry and judgmental atheists Christians and Muslims in this forum and Dangerous Talk has entirely to much time on their hands. Would love to see the energy spent on these keyboards doing something positive. We might then actually have a cure for cancer. Instead, it’s just spreading insanely here.

  • Jenny McFarland

    Psalm 14:1 – “Only a fool says in his heart there is no God.” Now that ain’t no fiction! : )

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      So you are saying that Christians should go around calling non-believers “fools?” Well, isn’t that nice.

      Look, I don’t blame you for calling me a fool. I certainly don’t think you are a fool, but I do think that you have been indoctrinated with a destructive ideology which teaches you that anyone outside of your tribe is the enemy.

  • Jenny McFarland

    *sigh* I didn’t say it. God did in His “book of fiction.” I was merely quoting a verse. And yes, you most likely think I’m a fool for my beliefs and for having faith in my Creator, and that’s OK. We can agree to disagree. I don’t think you’re the enemy. I think you’re a fellow human being that God created. I just don’t see how you can live and breathe without a care or thought to the functioning of your cells, organs and tissues, witness the miracle of your own brain and body, the birth of a child, the sunset, the seasons, the beauty of creation and deny your Creator. It’s mind-boggling, that’s all. And I just get tired of being told how I have no mind of my own and have believed some cockamamie ideology because I’m too dumb to think for myself. That’s absolutely not true. Facts are great – not knocking those – but there’s nothing wrong with faith, either. And I can look at pretty much any page of the Bible and find timeless wisdom that applies to any situation I go through. It’s a comfort. Most historians agree that Jesus existed. I believe He is who He says He is, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have spent a lot of time and energy engaged in debates with atheists, so I won’t go any further here. You’ll believe what you want, as will I. I can only tell you what works for me, and I get tired of being insulted for it. We’re not all idiotic, hate-mongering, judgmental hypocrites, and sometimes I get tired of being quiet about it, trying to take the high road and turn the other cheek. God doesn’t need my defense of Him, but I’m in this flesh, and sometimes it wins out. When it does, I find myself in places like this. Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven. I truly wish you all the best.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Here is what I take issue with. You start out insulting me. Then when I call you out on it, you claim that I “probably” think a bunch of awful things about you (which I don’t btw) to justify you starting out insulting me. Now, I am the hateful person even though you started out insulting me and I did not insult you at all. I don’t think you are dumb, stupid, or idiotic, or anything else. But you did start out by insulting me. You really do need to own up to that.

      It truly is awesome how our cells work and how the universe works. These things are so much more awesome than ancient biblical authors could possibly conceive. The fact that through the scientific method, we have been able to understand as much as we have is amazing. But it feels like a cheat to give credit for all this awesomeness to an ancient deity. Miracles are nothing compared to the wonders of the universe. Do you realize just how large the universe actually is? It really does make the elaborate schemes of the Biblical God seem silly by comparison. I mean, the whole human sin creating a rift between man and God which can only be closed through the magical blood of God’s son on Earth? Really?

      Here is the thing though. I don’t blame you for believing this even though it is completely ridiculous. This is the belief that has dominated our society and taught to pretty much everyone before we are even mature enough to walk and talk. In some cases the indoctrination is second hand, but it still permeates our society and preys on people when we are vulnerable. Very smart people believe this stuff, but not for smart reasons. There are no valid reasons to believe in religion and that is why there is faith. Faith is belief without evidence. If there was evidence, there would be no need for faith. With faith anything is permissible and that is how people like Chambers and Stengler make their fortunes. If you can believe in the Bible on faith alone, then there is nothing stopping you from believing that the cure for cancer is found on page 359 for the low low price of $72.

      • youmustgo

        Religion is one thing. It starts wars. It lies. It blames. It maims. It destroys. It divides. Love, though, real love. Now that’s what it’s really supposed to be all about. Not love between a man and a woman; brotherly love, and not just lip service, but in action. As long as there is one person hungry, alone, lost, homeless, who feels worthless, who hurts without a friend, those who call themselves Christians are not doing what they’ve been charged to do. Period.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          News flash: Christianity is a religion!!!
          When you talk about love for other people, I am right there with you but when you introduce a love for an imaginary deity over the love of other people, then I am going to have to call bullshit on that. People should come first.

          • youmustgo

            DT – I never said I was a Christian – did I? I don’t ascribe to any religion. Did you know the Bible also says the church will be dissolved? Guess why that is? Because religion is man made – and will be found out to have caused much harm. Which is why we are told to go straight to the Book – the Word – and the word is LOVE. People should always come first ABSOLUTELY! You have it better understood than most who call themselves Christians (the blind) do. It’s up to us who know that very truth to love them into knowing it too. Instead, there is so much polarization going on, no one listens to anyone because they are constantly putting each other down, labeling, name-calling, blaming, shaming, and prosthelytizing to have any understanding of one another. That’s why I ALWAYS start a conversation with, do you believe in love? Because that’s something everyone believes in. I believed the same way you do, until I learned (the hard way, by losing everything that was dear to me,) that there is no imaginary deity. There is no man with a white beard literally looking down on all of us. In the old testament, the idea of God was put forth as being able to be malevolent or benevolent. How could this be if it is a loving God? Because God is the collective, and the collective decides whether the actions that rule (powers that be) are malevolent or benevolent. But there is one God, and that’s the one that lives and breathes through every single one of us, and what we will eventually learn is – God – is that collective of the love we have for one another, once we learn to stop hating, dividing, blaming, etc. Peace.

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  • Linda Gentry

    Jesus Christ died for all mankind! He gave man a free will to accept him as our savior if we want to we can and if we choose not to we don’t have to it is our choice. It doesn’t matter whether you believe that GOD exists or not , God knows he does and that is what matters. If we let Christ come into our heart we will spend eternity with him in Heaven if not we will go to Hell and burn forever so which choice makes the most sense . There is a peace that passes all understanding when you accept Christ as your savior. Just look around you and see all the beauty that exists ; God did all that , how can you not say there is a creator . I will pray for you that God opens the eyes of your heart to believe! The Love of God is so rich and pure. Have a blessed Day! Remember GOD loves you!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Linda, just imagine for a moment that I swapped out “God” for “Lord Xenu” from Scientology in you comment. Lord Xenu knows he exists and has given you a choice to either spend eternity with him on his planet of paradise if not we will go into the volcano to burn forever so which choice makes the most sense? Obviously neither choice makes the most sense, right? Because you and I both know that Xenu doesn’t exist. We can’t prove he doesn’t exist and yet neither of us believe that he does or that we will be tortured for all eternity in a volcano if we fail to worship Lord Xenu. Why don’t we believe in Lord Xenu or the threat of eternal fire he represents? Because there is no evidence for him. What about the beauty of this world? The world is awesome. It is much more wondrous than we as human beings have begun to understand, but why are we giving credit for this to an imaginary character from a bronze-aged book of myths? Why not give this credit to Lord Xenu? Even better, why not admit that we are still trying to understand this amazing universe and that we don’t yet have all the answers. This makes more sense to me than simply assigning it’s cause and wonder to some ancient deity on insufficient evidence. I wish you could appreciate the wonders of scientific knowledge and the fact that our journey of understanding is only just beginning.

      • Linda Gentry

        I know whom I believe in ! I believe in GOD the creator and Jesus Christ ! He made a way for us to be able to have a relationship with him through his son Jesus Christ whom is God made flesh as man who came into this world to save us from our sins . Yes we both have a choice to serve or not serve God . We are saved through Faith believing what God promised us in his Holy Bible. I know where I am spending eternity and you can too in heaven. Assume I am right ; would you want to take a chance and die lost without Jesus? Think about that . I pray God will show you that this is real! I know in my heart it is !

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          What if Tom Cruise is right and Lord Xenu is the correct answer? Then you will be tortured for all eternity in a volcano with all the thetens. Are you really willing to take that chance?

          I am willing to take my chance with Lord Xenu’s volcano of thetans because I know it isn’t real. I’m also willing to take my chance will eternal torture in Hell because I know that isn’t real either… and if it were real, I still wouldn’t worship any deity who would allow people to be tortured for all eternity. Doing so would be immoral and it is always better to receive an injustice than to do one… or worship one in this case.

          All I am asking you to do is to think about it.

          • Linda Gentry

            Don’t use that reverse psychology on me. I know without a doubt whom I believe in . The devil can’t change my mind either he is using you to try to so not happening! Have a blessed day!

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            The Devil? I have some awesome news for you. The Devil is imaginary too. All I am asking you to do is to think critically about what you believe and why you believe it. Please, just think about it.

          • youmustgo

            The “devil,” or the idea of the anti-Christ (which is also what is anti-people) is all the evil of “things” including greed, and the love of money and what it has wrought, things like toxic waste and pollution, all of the things that are hurting (killing, destroying) people, taking money from them and hoarding it so they toil, hunger, and suffer; all of whom are loved equally and unconditionally, or should be if everyone had that love of God together.

    • youmustgo

      Respectfully disagree Linda. We are to accept the love, and share it. That’s how we save others. ALL others. With the love of God within us. It’s the love that is the savior, the love of Jesus. Jesus, God, Holy Spirit. They are love that all of us are supposed to have for one another. In His name.

      • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

        … or else you will be and deserve to be tortured for all eternity. That fine print will get’tcha every time. You can talk about how God is Love and all that stuff, but at the end of the day the Bible still preaches that billions of people will be and ought to be tortured for all eternity. Fortunately, I have some really great news — It’s all bullshit. None of it is real and no one will be tortured for all eternity.

      • Linda Gentry

        I agree but if you aren’t saved through Jesus Christ you can’t enter into heaven or have a relationship with God without being saved.

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Why would anyone want to be saved by any deity who would allow or directly cause the eternal torture of others? If someone just tortured countless people in front of your face and then gave you a choice to either worship him or her and live in luxury for the rest of your life, or be tortured with everyone else, what would you do? As a moral human being, I would rather receive the injustice than to do the injustice.

          • youmustgo

            Again, disagree Linda. I think Christians have it misunderstood. We are to save one another with the love of the collective that we are supposed to have. We are to care for “the least of these,” which shows them what that love looks like and they will then want the same. The relationship with God isn’t fulfilled unless you have that unconditional love for everyone. It’s what will save the world one day. And heaven and hell? They’re here. On Earth. I’ve been in hell for the last year, and I have always lived righteously. Entering into heaven will be when all people finally get the message, and do what Christ’s example showed them to do. Love one another. It is the light of the world. You’re right Dangerous Talk, morality has to do with loving others and showing it with action, not just lip service. It’s another area in which Christians have it so misunderstood. They believe morality is them judging others’ “sin.” True morality is making sure people don’t suffer as much as they do. That they be clothed, sheltered, fed, and loved by the collective, as “the least of these.” Even if you don’t believe the stuff in the Bible really happened, the real lessons within are timeless and showing themselves to more and more people today than ever before. Unlikely people, like me. Peace.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Here is the thing, I agree with you morally but I don’t think the Bible does. I think you are projecting your own morality onto the Bible. What I mean is that you are making the Bible into a much more moral book than it actually is. My advice to you is that you should reject the baggage of Christianity and just be good for goodness sake. You don’t need God to be moral and I think you have shown to be much more moral than the God you worship. Think about it.

          • youmustgo

            Trust me. I was exactly like you. And what I’m trying to say is that if more people understood what GOD is and what Jesus represents, more would feel safe in ascribing to it. Not Christianity, but the idea that the messages and teachings are exactly what you’re talking about. Too many have been misled, and then they have misled others. They’ve actually turned people away from the truth of the teachings, instead of doing what they claim to do and “help others be saved.” Problem is, “being saved” is not an intrinsic thing, it is a thing of action. Meaning someone who is saved from poverty, pain, suffering, etc. That they are saved by love, the action, not the emotion. I don’t “worship” God. I try to serve. Worshipping means having reverence and adoration. I have reverence and adoration for all people. And if all of us served each other efficiently, and shared what we have, including talents and abilities, there would be no more hunger, no more strife, no more homelessness, no more war, no more hate. Only love. If you read the messages within the Book, here’s what it boils down to: Old Testament = Stories to show “what was, what is, and what is yet to come,” meaning mankind has not changed all that much. People are ugly to each other, they judge, they kill in the name of that judgment, and in the name of GREED, they maim, they lie, they try to pass all sorts of ridiculous rules and regulations & do all sorts of ugly things, and they do it “in the name of God.” New Testament: The story of Jesus, who is supposed to represent the embodiment of the unconditional love we are to have for one another. He was born of modest means, he lived, and tried to teach love to other people, he died because people were ugly and judged him unfairly, and then he rose again. This represents LOVE, and the fact that even after someone dies, if they were loved, that love lives on past their death. If you look only at what Jesus TOLD us to do, directly in that Book, you will see that it’s all about LOVE. Not judging, loving God (so you know it’s real) and loving neighbor as yourself, and taking care of “his sheep,” which are supposed to be ALL of us, every single one. (Matthew 25 31:45, if only Christians would revere this one lesson, we would not be in the fix we’re in with so many people in poverty.) Even if everything in the Bible didn’t really happen, isn’t it a beautiful idea that everyone would learn to love and value every living person, and make room for them on this crowded Earth, and have “enough” for everyone? (Like the story of the fish and bread and a huge hungry throng to feed?) Instead of regarding everyone as “consumers” and having money be the center of the universe? Unfortunately, too many Christians and churches worship money too, instead of giving it all to help people. Again, I don’t worship a God, I have reverence and adoration for others. And I want ALL of them to have “enough,” especially enough love.

          • Tim Tian

            I highly doubt that you were exactly like him

  • A happier Christian

    The Bible says that those who don’t believe in God are foolish. It also says it is foolish for Christians to argue with fools because they will never accept the truth. God will draw on everyones heart to be saved- if they reject him that is their problem, so madly arguing with this atheist is foolish. But I will admit that this book does sound a little to good to be true.

  • Robert Scott

    Fasting could work. Before we naysay, let’s confirm what the biblical healing secret actually is…

    • Tim Tian

      Yes, fasting for 40 days could work. It could also make you a world record holder if you don’t die of starvation.

  • al707

    7 plus billion people in the world, 2.18 billion of those are Christians and they are still increasing to the present day, 1.21 billion of those christians are catholic, 1.6 billion of the 7 billion people in the world are muslim. Of the 7 billion people in the world 136,582,200 million are atheists down from 165,500,000 million in 1970. The rest are made up of different religions and beliefs.

  • K.H. Lewis

    Faith IS a fact, Jack. Choose your truth carefully, it is not all true!

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      How do you determine what is true and what is not?

      • K.H. Lewis

        I’m happy to tell you, you decide by faith. But you must decide and then abide by the outcome.
        Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

        —– Reply message —–

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          So you mean that if I decide by faith that my one dollar bill is actually worth one million dollars, then that is true? Truth, in your view is anything that I decide truth is as long as I have faith that it is true? Is that really how you live your life?

          • K.H. Lewis

            That is why I said there are outcomes, call them consequences. Also, one cannot make up his own truth. Truth is not a singular point, it is a system of belief that does not contradict other truths, call them values or morals, within your chosen system.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            How do you determine what those outcomes are and that they are indeed caused by the action performed? For example, my daughter danced today and there was no rain. Would it be correct to say that I can “decide to have faith” that her dancing prevented the rain? She danced and the outcome was no rain.

            Of course you and I both realize that no matter how much faith we have in my daughter’s dancing, it will have zero effect on the rain even though her dancing correlates with a lack of rain. My point is that it isn’t about faith, it is about the scientific method. Faith in her dancing will not change the reality. But through the scientific method we can evaluate the claim and whether or not her dancing does or does not actually prevent the rain. This is objective and measurable. It is also testable, predictive, and can even be peer reviewed.

            It does not matter how much I “decide by faith,” reality is what it is. We can just strive to understand it through science. Faith really has zero affect.

          • K.H. Lewis

            @font-face{font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}Your very comment declares your faith in science. Science may discover only what is available to its limitations. But it truly is limited. It would require perfect science to prove absolute Truth. Faith accepts the reality that cannot be perceived by science, let alone proven by scientific experiment. Just as my faith in absolute Truth has an outcome, so your faith science has one too. I’m good with my consequence of hope based upon The Creator’s Revelation. Relax and enjoy the contemplation of your outcome; if indeed it is enjoyable.
            Please don’t be offended if I am unable to continue our enjoyable banter. I have had some time for myself and it is coming to an end. Thank you for interacting with my thoughts. Keep digging for Truth…On April 1, 2014, at 10:24PM, Disqus wrote:

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            A new comment was posted on Dangerous Talk

            Dangerous Talk
            How do you determine what those outcomes are and that they are indeed caused by the action performed? For example, my daughter danced today and there was no rain. Would it be correct to say that I can “decide to have faith” that her dancing prevented the rain? She danced and the outcome was no rain. Of course you and I both realize that no matter how much faith we have in my daughter’s dancing, it will have zero effect on the rain even though her dancing correlates with a lack of rain. My point is that it isn’t about faith, it is about the scientific method. Faith in her dancing will not change the reality. But through the scientific method we can evaluate the claim and whether or not her dancing does or does not actually prevent the rain. This is objective and measurable. It is also testable, predictive, and can even be peer reviewed. It does not matter how much I “decide by faith,” reality is what it is. We can just strive to understand it through science. Faith really has zero affect. 10:24 p.m., Tuesday April 1
             

             
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            Dangerous Talk’s comment is in reply to

            K.H. Lewis:

             

            That is why I said there are outcomes, call them consequences. Also, one cannot make up his own truth. Truth is not a singular point … Read more


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    • Cheese001

      Faith is truth (to you)… but it is not fact.. Facts have evidence, whilst truth is speculated by individuals or groups based on what they read in a very very thick book.

  • Mark

    DT….I will pray for you…

  • Foundthisinteresting

    This is a great article for the Christians on this blog to read…..and Atheists too for that matter.

    If science can’t even disprove the existence of unicorns, how can it disprove the existence of God?

    I often hear the comment, “Science has proved there is no God.” Don’t
    ever be bullied by such a statement. Science is completely incapable of
    proving such a thing.

    I’m not saying that because I don’t like science, but rather because I
    know a little about how science works. Science operates on induction.
    The inductive method entails searching out things in the world and
    drawing generalized conclusions about those things based on observation.
    Scientists can only draw conclusions on what they find, not on what
    they can’t find.

    Science, by its very nature, is never capable of proving the non-existence of anything.

    For example, can science prove there are no unicorns? Absolutely not.
    How could science ever prove that unicorns don’t exist? All science can
    do is say that scientists may have been looking for unicorns for a long
    time and never found any. They might therefore conclude that no one is
    justified in believing that unicorns exist. They might show how certain
    facts considered to be evidence for unicorns in the past can be
    explained adequately by other things. They may invoke Occam’s Razor to
    favor a simpler explanation for the facts than that unicorns exist. But
    scientists can never prove unicorns themselves don’t exist.

    Since science, by its very nature, is never capable of proving the
    non-existence of anything, one can never accurately claim that science
    has proven God doesn’t exist. That’s a misuse of the discipline. Such a
    claim would require omniscience. The only way one can say a thing does
    not exist is not by using the inductive method, but by using a deductive
    method, by showing that there’s something about the concept itself that
    is contradictory.

    I can confidently say for sure that no square circles exist. Why? Not
    because I’ve searched the entire universe to make sure that there
    aren’t any square circles hiding behind a star somewhere. No, I don’t
    need to search the world to answer that question.

    The concept of square circles entails a contradictory notion, and
    therefore can’t be real. A thing cannot be a square and be circular
    (i.e., not a square) at the same time. A thing cannot be a circle and
    squared (i.e., not a circle) at the same time. Therefore, square circles
    cannot exist. The laws of rationality (specifically, the law of
    non-contradiction) exclude the possibility of their existence.

    This means, by the way, that all inductive knowledge is contingent.
    One cannot know anything inductively with absolute certainty. The
    inductive method gives us knowledge that is only probably true. Science,
    therefore, cannot be certain about anything in an absolute sense. It
    can provide a high degree of confidence based on evidence that strongly
    justifies scientific conclusions, but its method never allows certainty.

    If you want to know something for certain, with no possibility of
    error–what’s called apodictic certainty in philosophy–you must employ
    the deductive method.

    There have been attempts to use the deductive method to show that
    certain ways of thinking about God are contradictory. The deductive
    problem of evil is like that. If God were all good, the argument goes,
    He would want to get rid of evil. If God were all powerful, He’d be able
    to get rid of evil. Since we still have evil, then God either is not
    good or not powerful, or neither, but He can’t be both.

    If this argument is sustained, then Christianity is defeated, because
    contradictory things (the belief that God is both good and powerful in
    the face of evil) cannot be true at the same time. The job of the
    Christian at this point is to show there isn’t a necessary contradiction
    in their view of God, that genuine love does not require that there be
    no evil or suffering, and that preventing such a thing is a not function
    of God’s power. I think that can be done, and I’ve addressed that issue
    in another place (see The Strength of God and the Problem of Evil).

    So don’t be cowed or bullied by any comments that science has proven
    there is no God. Science can’t do that because it uses the inductive
    method, not the deductive method. When you hear someone make that claim,
    don’t contradict them. Simply ask this question: “How can science prove
    that someone like God doesn’t exist? Explain to me how science can do
    that. Spell it out.”

    Some take the position that if science doesn’t give us reason to
    believe in something, then no good reason exists. That’s simply the
    false assumption of scientism.

    You can even choose something you have no good reason to believe
    actually does exist–unicorns, or leprechauns, for that matter. Make
    that person show you, in principle, how science is capable of proving
    that any particular thing does not exist. He won’t be able to. All he’ll
    be able to show you is that science has proven certain things do exist,
    not that they don’t exist. There’s a difference.

    Some take the position that if science doesn’t give us reason to
    believe in something, then no good reason exists. That’s simply the
    false assumption scientism. Don’t ever concede the idea that science is
    the only method available to learn things about the world.

    Remember the line in the movie Contact? Ellie Arroway
    claimed she loved her father, but she couldn’t prove it scientifically.
    Does that mean she didn’t really love him? No scientific test known to
    man could ever prove such a thing. Ellie knew her own love for her
    father directly and immediately. She didn’t have to learn it from some
    scientific test.

    There are things we know to be true that we don’t know through
    empirical testing–the five senses– but we do know through other ways.
    Science seems to give us true, or approximately true, information about
    the world, and it uses a technique that seems to be reliable, by and
    large. (Even this, though, is debated among philosophers of science.)
    However, science is not the only means of giving us true information
    about the world; its methodology limits it significantly.

    One thing science cannot do, even in principle, is disprove the
    existence of anything. So when people try to use science to disprove the
    existence of God, they’re using science illegitimately. They’re
    misusing it, and this just makes science look bad.

    The way many try to show God doesn’t exist is simply by asserting it,
    but that’s not proof. It isn’t even evidence. Scientists sometimes get
    away with this by requiring that scientific law–natural law–must
    explain everything. If it can’t explain a supernatural act or a
    supernatural Being then neither can exist. This is cheating, though.

    Scientists haven’t proven God doesn’t exist; they’ve merely assumed
    it in many cases. They’ve foisted this truism on the public, and then
    operated from that point of view. They act as if they’ve really said
    something profound, when all they’ve done is given you an unjustified
    opinion.

    No need for debate here, just thought this was a good article. Thanks

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      For starters, no one said that science can disprove God. But there is no scientific reason to believe God exists and in the absence of any valid evidence where evidence should exist, the best position is to reject the claim until valid evidence is presented.

      Second, you are making a category error when it comes to love and for the record, we can provide strong valid evidence for our feelings of love both through observation and in a lab. So that really doesn’t hold any weight.

      As for the “square circle” can you really say that it doesn’t exist even though it is a logical contradiction? Maybe there are parts of the universe that allow for logical contradictions. Have you been to every corner of the universe to know that there are no square circles? No, but you don’t believe in them because there is no valid evidence to support the claim and all the evidence points to the fact that they don’t exist. God is the same way.

      “So don’t be cowed or bullied by any comments that science has proven there is no God.” You are again making a strawman argument here since no one has actually asserted that science has proven there is no god. What we have said is exactly what you have said. There is no valid reason to believe that there is a god and there is certainly no valid reason to conclude that if there is a god that it it your God. I don’t believe in unicorns either for the same reason. However, I am open to evidence of both. I do think that unicorns are much more likely than deities.

      That is why there is something called the burden of proof. It isn’t the job of science to disprove God or unicorns. The burden of evidence is on the one asserting the claim. You are asserting that a particular God exists and I am calling bullshit. I am asking you to provide valid evidence for your claim. If you can’t do that, then there is no reason I should believe your claim.

      Please present you evidence. Thanks!

      • Foundthisinteresting

        The first two sentences of your response contradicted exactly what this article’s meaning is and shows you in fact believe that science can prove everything (which in fact it cannot) and this has been proven. Remember, this is not my article. You are responding to me like it is. Science cannot prove that things DON”T exists! I think even after reading all your articles (which many of us have) We are now asking you, still (because none of your articles do this for us) provide us all with VALID evidence for your claims. Because we in fact are calling “billshit” on yours. If you could prove to the billions of Christians in the world that God in fact does not exist…..then this blog would be none existent and we would all be Atheists wouldn’t we? I am opened to evidence of both as you are….I just haven’t been proven by science or any Atheist of this proof. I chose faith over science…..and I think that’s ok.

        • Foundthisinteresting

          PS. You have not given us a valid reason not to believe in God. Your evidence (writings on this site) are unclear and not convincing to many.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Valid reason not to believe in the God of the Bible? Sure, the claims made in the Bible are ridiculous, contradictory, scientifically inaccurate, and morally repulsive. Plus, there is no valid evidence to support the claim and in the absence of valid evidence the most logical position to take would be to reject the claim until valid evidence is presented. How’s that?

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Prophecies that were spoken of thousands of years ago and are now in our present time coming to pass. Scientifically inaccurate? There’s that proof of science again…..by who’s scientific claim? Again, you can’t reject a claim until valid evidence is presented to you. Where is the concrete evidence that God does not exist I ask yet again? Again, I’ve read your work…I’m far from being convinced by any of it until valid evidence is presented. You just can’t do that can you? No one can. You’ll never be able to convince the billions of believers all over the world to question their faith. Faith is a gift we give ourselves. We either have it and know what to do with it or we don’t. I believe that that’s ok for everyone. Atheists and Believers both. I didn’t really want to debate with you. But I think this has been a good one. We’ve been civil to each other and that’s good.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Note: If no one said that science can disprove God exists. Why does there NEED to be a scientific reason God does exists whether absence or valid evidence? And if there is NO scientific reason, why is rejecting the claim the best position? This is easily turned around on you. Us asking you by “burden of proof” that is. Your absence of any valid evidence where evidence should exist proving his nonexistence. You yourself have claimed that the bible is “scientifically” inaccurate. So, you must believe that science CAN in fact disprove whether God exists or not.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            And again. You can’t blame me for being redundant when you keep ignoring my answer to your question. I already addressed this multiple times. The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. My claim is that you have not presented valid evidence for your claim. Just like the Norse having provided valid evidence for the existence of Oden. Although, they do claim that Oden defeated all the Frost Giants and you don’t see any Frost Giants around, do you? Maybe you should believe in Oden. Just say’n. ;-)

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Dangerous Talk, you have to be more tolerant of redundancy here. Anyone who visits this site has to be with you. Because you never really answer the original main question I have asked or what many ask. You just keep ALSO turning the question around. Which by the way, is very easy to do in a debate like this. As far as your book that WILL PROVE God doesn’t exist….you can’t even answer that simple question here with a couple of sentences…you’ve just danced around it and keep asking people to read your articles. I have made no positive claims here. Look up the word “FAITH” my friend. Claims are not needed to describe or explain it. Like I said before (redundancy here), Faith is like a thumb print. No ones is the same. I do believe you know this. You are very intelligent I can tell. But this “burden of proof” you keep using to try and explain that Faith does need to be explained has been beaten to death here. You keep saying you’ve addressed things over and over to me. I’ve asked you one very valid question. Prove to me that God doesn’t exist. Simple. Don’t ask me to refer to other articles you’ve written. If you have proof, you should be able to simply and very quickly confirm this for me. Yes, I am repeating this over and over. Cause I really want to know NOW. I don’t want to wait for “YOUR BOOK”. And I do care what you have to say. But your not answering just the one simple question….the only one I’ve really asked. The only one I care about. I haven’t asked you what you believe. I haven’t even been critical or judgemental of your beliefs/opinions. And the burden of proof is yet again, still on you….you have simply refused to accept that. Again, look up Faith. No proof needed….ever! If you can’t answer my question without asking me to refer to your past writings, that’s ok. I understand I’m asking a very hard question. I haven’t meant to be rude, annoying etc. Again, I have answered your question a number of times (on this reply again) Faith does not need an explanation. There it is. That’s my answer. My Faith tells me God is with me always. Now I will ask you again. And I promise no more. Prove to me that God does not exist in four sentences or less like I just did. Simple. If you can’t I understand.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Quick question, have you presented valid evidence for your claims? Just saying……:)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Yes, every claim I make I can either present valid evidence or refer someone to a place where they can find valid evidence.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Every Claim!? WHAT? I’m only asking for one though…..please refer me to the valid evidence so I can find this place where I can find it. Cause that’s all I’ve been asking for! Now I’m getting a little excited. I feel like there might be something tangible you can give to prove this one claim. Now don’t tell me to refer to one of your articles. Cause I did that. And nothing explained the concrete evidence of a Godless universe. Sooo, where to I go now? You’ve really got my attention now! Reminder: my question above referred to ONE valid claim that God does not exists. Ok? Not other claims. Just that one……just want to make that clear.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Another quick one here. How come the “burden of proof” only falls on the believer for you? You say we are making a claim that God does exist right? We CAN in fact give you the simple answer of FAITH and FAITH alone. But you don’t like that answer….even though it in fact is a valid answer. For us this is as concrete as a human being can get if their Faith is strong. Atheists don’t understand Faith. Maybe they did at one time. But Faith turned on them cause they didn’t know how to use it. Whatever. That’s a whole different debate. But when we ask you to back up your claim with concrete facts and proof….reversing the “burden of proof” on you. You keep saying that your not making a claim. So this is suppose to get you out of the so called “burden of proof”? So saying God doesn’t exists is not a claim that Atheists should own? Our proof is our personal (thumb print) Faith. Your constant references do not answer the question being ignored here. Take one of the sentences above that I helped you out with…..and use them to begin explaining to me with proven evidence that God does not and never has existed. When you can do that I’ll jump on the Atheist Wagon right along with you. Geez I’ll be the one driving the wagon if you would just answer this simple question……I really know you can’t. But I would just like to see if your capable of saying and admitting that you can’t explain the nonexistence of God. No one can.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            I see you’ve deleted a few of my replies here. I find that to be very interesting. The pressure of having to find the proof to back up your claim must of gotten grueling. I understand. God Bless

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Every claim? Not the most important one…..right? Hope you don’t . delete this reply….yet again. I think it’s only fair that visitors should be able to read it all in its entirety and you have deleted a lot of it. Good debate……still need a concrete, proven, valid answer/explanation from you. But really, that’s ok. It truly is a question that can’t be answered. I just thought maybe I found the person that could really answer and explain it to me. I’ve read almost all of your replies to others and your quit positive and clear about your claim of Gods nonexistence . So I pushed you for an answer. And I didn’t get it. I am being truly sincere here. But all and all, I’ve very much made my point here, belabored it to be exact. Thanks for allowing me to use your/this platform to express my thoughts and opinion! :)

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            And again. I already answered this a million times just for you. I have also answered it a million times for other people. You just can’t accept the answer, but that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been answered. This is the last time I am going to answer it for you. The burden of proof is on you to prove your claim, not on me to disprove your claim. I have already stated the reason why this is the case according to the rules of logic and reason. That’s it. Question answered!

          • Foundthisinteresting

            That is not an answer! Let me help you out here…..See this is how that answer should start out for you. “God does not exist because……And the proof I have that he doesn’t exist is this…….Here is the scientific proof and evidence that God does not exist.” How can I accept an answer that has never been answered! A million times? I’ve asked for concrete proof a millions times and you give me a dance lesson. This is ok Dangerous Talk…….this is an up hill battle for you. I again, have nothing to prove. My Faith AGAIN (to answer YOUR question) is my answer. My faith assures of my salvation and that God exists. I don’t know how much more simple my answer could be. You have dodged your question repeatedly.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            *facepalm* First off, I have not claimed that God doesn’t exist in the scientific sense, only in the practical sense — the same way that both of us can claim that Oden and unicorns don’t exist. So this is first and foremost a strawman argument. Second, we already agreed that science cannot disprove such a concept and that this would be a limit of science. Therefore, your question is invalid. I have again stated over and over again that this is the very reason why logic and reason have placed the burden of proof on the one making the positive claim. If you cannot satisfy that claim, than it would only be logical to reject that claim on insufficient evidence. Third, to make this point clear to you, I have asked you to prove that Oden doesn’t exist. Where is your proof that Oden doesn’t exist. Stop “dancing” around the question unless you are willing to accept that Oden does in fact exist and that you are willing to bow down to him as the one true God. Are you willing to do that? If not, then please provide evidence that he doesn’t exist so I can move on to the next deity you don’t believe in. You are not being internally consistent here. You can’t dismiss the existence of Oden without disproving his existence and then expect me not to do the same with your deity of choice. I have repeated shown that you argument is invalid and that just hasn’t penetrated into your dogmatic mindset. I am not dancing this dance with you any further. Unless you present something new, I will no longer allow you to continue to make the same failed argument over and over again just so I can respond to it over and over again. It get’s us nowhere and it wastes my time. The end!

          • Foundthisinteresting

            I can see I’ve frustrated and exhausted you. Again, this reply not once answering my question. Only bringing up your Oden again. I find that quit interesting. And yes, you do claim over and over again that God does not exists. You have selective memory. And yet again, I have never claimed that your Oden and or Unicorns don’t exists. And I explained the definition of the “Strawman” claim and you keep deleting it. I understand it very well. I’ve posted it twice and it keeps vanishing from this site. My question is anything but invalid. You are an Atheist making huge claims on a site. You should be able to back those claims up hook line and sinker. But you can’t. I have no proof that your Oden dose not exist. I never claimed he didn’t. You just wanted me to and I explained I have no need to prove anything to you. I bow down to the one and only God. I kneel to him only out of gratitude, love and loyalty. Consistency? You have none. I expect you to do nothing with God. I have never asked you to. I have only asked you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not exist. And you have not. You have in fact repeatedly shown me that you have no proof of anything. If you no longer continue to allow me to make the same failed argument that you yourself have created here. You in fact have given up on the fact that your information is undeniably unprovable in any way shape or form. I feel I have made my point. You in fact have no proof to back up any of your claims. I answered your question simply. BY FAITH believers know God exists. You refuse to acknowledge Faith as fact. Yes, your time has in fact been wasted. I feel victorious! I have made you realize your claims are redundant and fall on billions of false ears. This makes me very happy. God Bless You Dangerous Talk….cause He does bless and love you even though you don’t want Him to.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            You have not claimed that God doesn’t exist in any sense…PERIOD! My point all along. I have never claimed that Oden or Unicorns don’t exist. You have. These are your “Strawman” arguments. My question has never been invalid…..at all. And I think you know that. The only positive claim I’ve made is that my Faith tells me God is with me. I in fact have satisfied my claim. You on the other hand have not. So again, I have rejected your claim on insufficient evidence.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            So if this is the “last time” your going to not answer my question. Does that mean we’ve exhausted the fact that you truly can’t? I’m going to assume that this is exactly what this means. And I’ve been dying to say, “you can’t answer this question, that’s what I thought”. I’ve known it all along. No one can answer that question. It’s impossible. “Be still, and know I am God”. I do this everyday……and will for the rest of my life. Faith my friend. Simple basic Faith. It’s so easy. Billions of us have it and some unfortunately never find it. Some have it and then lose it. Life is not easy. Nor should it be. We all have problems and situations. Those problems and situations make us better people.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            And again.

            Not to worry though, I will be publishing a book hopefully later this year that provides a philosophical proof that God does not exist. So I guess you’ll just have to wait for it. ;-)

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Again, this is not an answer to my question above. It’s what you believe or think. Its your opinion. I didn’t ask you anything about the God of the Bible. I stated above….PS You have not given us a valid reason NOT to believe in God. Your evidence (articles) are not convincing. The Bible being ridiculous, contradictory, scientifically inaccurate and morally repulsive does not answer my question. I wanted valid evidence to support YOUR claims of God being nonexistent. And in the absence of valid evidence I have to reject your claims also and any information you have presented in your articles. How’s that?

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            And again…. Come on you have to come up with some new material. If you look at my list of Atheism 101 Articles, which one is titled, “Proof that God doesn’t exist?” None of them!!! So why would you expect any of those articles to convince you of something that they are not focused on? Each article is designed to address a particular point or argument that religious believers (not always Christians) have put forward. I do have an article that even addresses this point that you keep making over and over again and that I have addressed to you over and over again. So if you read ALL the articles (as you claimed) then you would have read the article dealing with the religious claim that it takes more faith not to believe.

            You don’t really have to read all the articles, just that one article would address this point. But it doesn’t really matter because you don’t really care what I have to say. You will just dogmatically keep repeating the same failed argument over and over again. I addressed it over and over again.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            I’m not expecting any of your articles to convince me. I’m asking you right here, right now to convince me. I’m opened to that. Ok, I’ve read it. Still. Same question. It takes more faith not to believe? For who? This article did not address my point or question I might add. And again, I do care what you have to say. Your just not saying anything that confirms my (redundant) question here. Why is this a failed argument? I don’t feel that way on my part at all. I feel I’ve made my argument quit clear.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Good, because as I stated before none of those articles are aimed at convincing you. They are aimed at addressing very particular points made by religious believers. Yes, the More Faith article does address your point… as does every response I have made to your comments. Just because you refuse to accept the rebuttal doesn’t mean that the rebuttal hasn’t been made or that the rebuttal isn’t valid.

            It is a failed argument because you would have to accept a belief in everything that you could not actively disprove for your argument to be valid. You stated yourself that one cannot disprove something so therefore you would have to accept that Oden is a real God as is Zeus and every other deity. Unicorns are real and so are dragons and goblins. This is why that is a failed argument and why the rules of logic and reason have placed the burden of proof on the one making the positive claim. You have claimed that the God of the Bible exists. That is a positive claim and demands evidence to support it. Without such evidence, the logical position would be to reject the claim until valid evidence has been presented.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            And yet again. You have claimed that God does not exist. So the burden of proof lies on your shoulders. You have also made a positive claim. I answered your question that my Faith in God tells me he exists. You have yet to explain in simplistic form how he in fact does not exist. I need valid evidence just as much as you do. No, the More Faith article does nothing of the sort. Did it prove to me that God does not exist. No. You have made NO RESPONSE to my comments. You just keep bringing up Oden & Zeus? I’m quit confident in my argument here. I have answered your question multiple times. You in fact are just trying dance with me over and over again……

        • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

          Again, you are making a strawman claim. Let me repeat the first two sentences of my comment: “no one said that science can disprove God. But there is no scientific reason to believe God exists and in the absence of any valid evidence where evidence should exist, the best position is to reject the claim until valid evidence is presented.”

          The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. You are claiming that a deity exists and I am calling bullshit. I am not claiming that no deity exists, I am claiming that I don’t believe any deity exists because no valid evidence have been presented to support the claim.

          Further, I have written hundreds maybe even thousands of articles on multiple platforms I doubt very much that anyone has read all of them. But I would encourage you to at least read the Atheism 101 Series (link at the top of the page).

          Also, as a matter of fact, you all are atheists in relation to Zeus, Oden, Thor, Jupiter, and thousands of other deities. I just go one god further. Why don’t you believe in Oden? Do you have any evidence that Oden doesn’t exist? Of course not, so therefore you should believe in him, right? If you reject the concept of a burden of proof, then you must believe in Oden. You are contradicting yourself if you don’t.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            The burden of proof only lies with the one who has something to prove. Christianity or spirtuality needs no proof. They are both driven by faith and faith alone. Faith is only within ones self and is like a thumb print…different for all. I did read your Atheism 101….I found it redundant and again, without proof scientifically or other wise. You still have given no one proof that Our God does not exist. Whether in your scientific research or your own. You again, also have no evidence, as you say we don’t have evidence so we shouldn’t believe. These debates you have with many are redundant and send you on tangents that make no real sense at all. Do you have any evidence that Oden doesn’t in fact exist…or any other god you mentioned? No, you don’t. Or has science proved this for you also? Again, you in fact are saying or at least agreeing that if there isn’t scientific proof that God doesn’t exist because there is NO evidence. Then in fact there is NO God. So, you are in fact saying that science has disproved it. And yet again, you in fact have not given us any concrete valid proof with your Atheist 101 that he in fact does Not exist….so you in fact are being very vague by also repeating yourself over and over again about what science has proved and what it CANNOT prove. Start supporting your claim also…..I don’t see that in any of your articles. Like I said before. If you could support your claim (like you would like us all to do)…this blog wouldn’t be necessary…..there would be more Atheists in the world then believers in Christ. Again, Faith throws the “burden of proof” out the window. And billions of people love that about faith.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            So you believe in Oden? Unicorns? Dragons? Zeus? I guess you have to believe them all. If not, then provide proof that they don’t exist. Again, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim. Either of us have to prove Oden doesn’t exist in order to reject the claim that he exists. It is up to the Norse to provide evidence that he does exist. If they can’t do that, then we are under no obligation to believe them and I am pretty sure neither of us do. Your God is no different than their God. You can’t dance around that.

            I’m redundant because you are redundant. I already addressed this and you clearly didn’t comprehend it. So I have to address it again… and again.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            No, you redundantly don’t have to keep bringing up Oden, Unicorns, Dragons or even Zeus. I just want you to provide proof that God doesn’t exist. No one else. You are absolutely not obligated to believe in God or anything else. I’m not asking you to. I’m just asking about Gods existence. What have you addressed already that I have asked? I’ve only asked you one very important question. Only one. So, in actuality there really hasn’t been anything explained here for me to comprehend.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            Prove proof Oden doesn’t exist and I’ll use your proof. ;-)

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Again, tip toeing refusing to answer my question….

          • Foundthisinteresting

            In a debate, when your opponent replies you have made a “Strawman’s Claim”. It’s because they can’t really answer your question. It’s their way of tip toeing around your questions. I simply have asked you multiple times to give me (us) concrete proof that God does not exist. Now remember. This is not my blog. The “burden of proof” is not on me. I explained my faith and the faith of billions of others who believe. We don’t want or need to prove anything scientifically or other wise. We are fine believing what we believe in. Your the one that has a problem with what we believe in. But you do have more of a responsibility to present concrete evidence to support any claims you have. Remember, this is your party. You’ve openly invited anyone here to comment. Again, just asking for evidence to support your claims. We don’t need to support our claims. Our faith is our ticket out of answering that question….. I do understand that faith is something that is not tangible to an Atheist. Which makes these kinds of debates very mute…to say the least.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            ROTFLMAO!!!

            And again….

            You might want to actually look up the definition of a “strawman” argument. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

            “Now remember. This is not my blog. The “burden of proof” is not on me.” — That’s a good one. Are you claiming that God exists? If the answer is yes, then it doesn’t matter whose blog it is, the burden of proof is on you.

            The claim I have made in this blog post was that this guy who claims that the Bible cures cancer has not met the burden of proof and is almost certainly a fraud.

            My claims are that you have not met the burden of proof for your claims. That’s how logic and reason work. Why does it work that way? Because if we had to prove something doesn’t exist in order to reject it, then we would have to believe in everything!!! You even admitted that. So again, for the millionth time, do you believe in everything? Do you believe in Oden, Zeus, unicorns, dragons, the alien overlord Xenu, etc.? If you don’t believe in them, then by your own argument you must prove evidence that they don’t exist.

            Now of course, if you accept logic and reason then the burden of proof is only on the one making the positive claim and therefore, one need not prove that any of these don’t exist; just that the person asserting the claim hasn’t provided acquitted evidence for their claim.

          • Foundthisinteresting

            Can you please quote where I admitted that I believe in everything. Having faith in God does not mean you believe in everything. I don’t need to prove that something doesn’t exist….you do. My faith tells me what I believe in does exist. Faith is what makes “burden of proof” null and void. So, for the millionth time. Please answer my question. And I don’t know if Oden, Zeus, unicorns, dragons, or aliens exist. I never claimed they did or didn’t. I’m trying to stay on topic here with only GOD. That’s the only one I want you to answer about. But you can’t. You just keep bringing up other things to avoid the question. Your so right in how you ended in your reply. The person asserting their claim has most certainly not provided any evidence that in fact God the Creator of Heaven and Earth does not exist. Not Oden, Zeus etc. Just GOD….

          • Foundthisinteresting

            I did in fact explain the Strawman argument. I most definitely know what it means and how you tried to turn the tables with it. But you keep deleting what I wrote about it. And I think you mean Odin, not Oden. Google it.

          • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

            BTW, it’s “mood” not “mute”… unless you are trying to silence me of course. ;-)

          • Foundthisinteresting

            LOLO, I know, that’s what I meant. No, I think trying to silence you would be a very “mood” task. And the same could be said about me. ;)

          • Foundthisinteresting

            The “Strawman” technique or claim has been used throughout history in debates, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues
            where a fiery, entertaining “battle” and the defeat of an “enemy” may
            be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the
            issue. So in fact I do know what this means. And this is exactly what you in fact have continued to do through out this debate actually. You are bringing up things and side stepping the “original” question of proving the one question you’ve been asked. Proving the nonexistence of God. If you could have done this twenty plus replies ago. This debate would have ended and you would have been the Atheist that finally convinced the world (or me) that we in fact live in a Godless world.

  • Kara

    My question is if this guy has “the cure” why doesn’t he give it up??? This is a long presentation with no “cure”….yeah, that’s mighty Christian…

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Totally agree. This is obviously a scam.

  • zeniforia

    The judgment of each other does not solve. In fact it brings chaos. An argument is useless unless both parties listen and except the truths on both sides and learn from them. Peace will come in time.

  • DirtFarmer

    Soooo… I’m assuming you tried the cure in a valid scientific study on yourself or someone who had/has cancer and can definitively say that it doesn’t work. Right?

  • Specilum

    I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, but I agree with the writer of this article that they should not be selling the truth, but they should be buying it!
    Now, I know there are HUGE health advantages of fasting, and it very well might starve the cancer cells… cancer cells thrive in a high sugar environment.
    Fast, or remove all sugars from your diet, and seek God.
    Forget chemo… that stuff is nasty…
    As for the rest of this article blasting the bible… I am sorry but the author probably had a very bad experience with someone who was religious (not a disciple of Jesus)
    I am sorry you got hurt, but that doesnt mean you need to go and hurt others to try and heal your wound…
    if you care to talk, hit me up… I would love to help…

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Before making unfounded accusations, you might want to actually inquire about the facts. I live in America where nearly everyone is a Christian so of course I have had some negative experiences with Christians. You can’t go through life and never have a negative experience with anyone. However, i have also had a great deal of positive experiences with Christians. So my personal experiences with Christians really has nothing to do with my view of Christianity. I am not trying to hurt anyone, but I am going to criticize ridiculous and dangerous beliefs when I see them. Instead of trying to make this a personal attack against me in order to validate your ideology, maybe your should consider the criticisms that people like me make toward your religious beliefs. This isn’t about you; it is about your beliefs.

  • twoedgedsword

    I started fasting 10 years ago. You can do the research on that and decide for yourself. But the entire research I did was secular… had nothing to do with the bible. So while I’m not promoting the bible anything relative to fasting… I’m not about to post verbal vomit either.
    When I read what I just read by “Staks Rosch” (Staks? are you serious?) I realize that atheists like him are far more “dangerous” than any preacher I’ve ever hear speak.
    “Spare us from your hatred dude. OK, you hate the god you don’t believe in. Right. Got it.”.

  • BG

    You are going out of your way to bash Christians when it is not a Christian perpetuating this fraud. It’s very likely an agnostic or an atheist. I don’t see you bashing atheists. I guess you guys are as pure as the wind driven snow

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      First of all, I don’t recall “bashing” anyone. However, Christians have repeatedly been bashing me and falsely accusing me of bashing them when I have not done so.

      Second, “Very likely an agnostic or an atheist?” How do you figure that? The guy is a devout Christian who took most of his source material from another devout Christians and the BIBLE! He even writes for a Christian publisher and yet you are going to blame atheists for this? Look, I’ll give you that Karl Rove is a douche bag and he is actually an atheist, but you can’t put this guy in our corner. He is definitely one of your and so are all the people he has swindled.

  • BG

    Oh…. but thanks for the info… lol. You spared me having to look at the crap that atheist was posting

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      Okay.

  • Nita

    I am a Christian, and I believe that God may have codes that will keep us healthy. I just think that, if people have the codes, they should give them to us freely. We should not have to buy something to receive Bible codes from a book we already have. That is just cruel. I understand that paper and publishing is not free, but the book of codes is free. And even the encyclopedia is free. Just not the newsletter. I only want “The Bible’s Healing Codes Revealed.” I feel that if God has enlightened this doctor to understand codes in the Bible, then this doctor should be obligated to share this information freely….not attach it to a year’s supply of newsletters. That’s just my opinion.

    • http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

      The people who wrote the Bible didn’t know about germs. They almost certainly didn’t know magical cures for all diseases.

  • Tim Tian

    I have faith that not everyone is a idiot.