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Posted by on Jan 27, 2013 in Atheism Plus, Movement, SlymePit | 32 comments

Why, oh why, CFI?

 

Image courtesy of BirdTerrifier

 

A couple years ago, I went for a long ride with my friends Chas, CJ, and Abbie to meet one of my favourite women in secularism and hear her give a talk. On the way there, Abbie ragged on me a wee bit for wearing a shiny little CFI lapel pin on my blazer. I cannot now recall the particular details of that conversation, but I do remember defending CFI’s founding values and their achievements to date. Of late, I find myself wondering whether I may have been much mistaken.

As you probably are aware, I helped start a fundraiser to allow fellow SINner Justin Vacula attend Women in Secularism 2 in May. I’ve explained a few of my reasons for doing this elsewhere, but perhaps the most important reason went unstated, and that is my belief that the ongoing disagreements between various freethought leaders can only be solved by seriously engaging with each other, carefully listening to the other side, and at least coming to the point where we can begin to agree on what precisely we are disagreeing about.

CFI has claimed to value this approach in the past, saying that “[n]o topic should be placed off limits to scrutiny,” and demanding “free inquiry in all aspects of human interest.” Their open-minded approach humanism has always impressed me, and until very recently, I’ve never had reason to doubt their dedication to these principles. Of late, though, we’ve seen people like Josh Slocum and Martin Robbins openly calling for a ban, along with this charming fellow, and who knows how many other A-plussers privately writing letters to Ron Lindsay in support of a preemptive ban.

My face upon learning that CFI is seriously contemplating banning fellow humanists from the conference

None too long ago, heated debates flared up within the skeptic and freethought communities over the proper role and wording of harassment policies for our conferences. At the time, I didn’t take a strong stand on the issue, although I did argue in favour of a well-crafted policy for our local event, FreeOK. At no point did I take seriously the slippery slope argument that harassment policies could be easily abused by those in charge of organising conferences, as a means of excluding those with whom they have longstanding grudges or disagreements. Apparently, I was being somewhat shortsighted. While I still believe CFI will ultimately do the right thing and allow people like me and Justin to attend, by failing to publicly disavow the various calls for preemptive banning, they’ve created a situation where their (quite reasonable and well-crafted) anti-harassment policy now hangs like a virtual sword of Damocles not only over Justin, but over anyone even associated with him or known to publicly question the methods of AtheismPlus or their most prominent advocates.

It would cost me around $500 to fly to D.C., another couple hundred to register, and another few hundred for hotel accommodations and meals. That’s a significant investment of time and money, and there is no way I can spend that much in good conscience as I’ve no way of knowing in advance whether I’d actually be allowed to attend.

While I continue to support CFI and remain proud to call myself a Friend of the Center, if they implement a policy of blocking/banning/blacklisting for those who disagree (with some of their speakers on some of their issues) I will not be able to do so any longer. This would be a sad day for me, and everyone else who believes in the value of genuinely free inquiry.

 


ETA: I do not know whether or when the CFI board will announce who will be allowed to attend. My earlier statement that it will not be dealt with until May was a misapprehension on my part.

  • http://www.mygodlesslife.com/ Tris Stock @mygodlesslife

    The Women in Secularism convention could be a pivotal moment for atheism. If Justin Vacula is barred or arrested upon his arrival, we know for sure that the schism is complete and we can move on.

    Generally, I think Justin and a few others have been making too much hay out of this story. They seem too have forgotten what it is they are doing, or why. I hope that whatever happens, reason wins; whichever side you are sympathetic to. For if we are focusing on stupid internal conflicts, then we are not focusing on what bought us all together in the first place.

    Draw your lines an the sand and be done with it

    • shanepbrady

      With no disrespect to Justin, because I don’t know him that well, but him going to WiS just comes off as a stunt to me.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      It was originally my idea, not his, and I can assure you it is no stunt. It is nothing less that a test, and so far CFI has been failing. Failing to disavow the hate-crazed virtual lynch-mobs, failing to provide us with advance notice of a ban so as to prevent detrimental reliance, failing to reject registration payments on the spot and thereby creating the impression of a completed contract. Above all, they are failing to adhere to anything resembling due process in which the accused is allowed to tell their side of the story.

      Here is what they should have done, and they could have done it in a single tweet: Justin Vacula will be allowed to attend. We refuse to be cyber-bullied by the Horde, and will not capitulate to their demands.

    • shanepbrady

      Ah, I didn’t know it was your idea. Look, I really get where you’re coming from, I really do. RIght now, though, doing videos about Greta’s shoes, and kind of snarky posts about acid baths, comes off a little petty now. The best way to “confront” them, is to keep doing the activism like you always do, and don’t give them anything for material. Just my humble opinion,

    • Chas Stewart

      Surely you know that Damion nor Justin have anything to do with the acid insult and I don’t think Justin commented on the shoemacle. Just because Damion and Justin are critics of FTBers does not mean that they are in league with all the other dissenters.

    • shanepbrady

      Justin did comment on the shoe debacle in a video, and I know no one here had anything to do with the acid tweet. Still, Justin chose to write a post about the acid tweet, that was really just to irritate OP, not for any discussion. I think a lot of Justin’s videos, intentionally or not, are just there to irritate not communicate.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      I’m firmly and publicly on Greta’s side regarding her shopping habits, she asked for donations for income replacement not for medical needs. Replacement income is spent on whatever one usually spends income on. That said, I didn’t find anything terribly disagreeable in Justin’s video on the topic, which was about how the contention that this is somehow a gendered issue. Are luxury shoes really just a gal thing? Check this out: http://www.fluevog.com/code/?w%5B%5D=gender:men

    • Chas Stewart

      I remember that now.

      RE luxury shoes: Try buying reasonably priced Jordans.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      As a native Chicagoan, I’ve priced Jordans. Now that I’m old and fat, I might finally be able to afford them.

    • http://twitter.com/Eshto Ryan Grant Long

      Doesn’t posting an atheist banner among public Christmas decorations also come off as a stunt to theists? Seems to be very subjective. Whether you think it’s a stunt or not, I think the last thing Justin wants is to harass or intimidate anybody. Looks like he’s trying to have a conversation and get some points across.

    • shanepbrady

      Depends how it’s done if course. It is subjective, my opinion on this can only be subjective. Same with going to WiS. If Justin wants to genuinely have a real conversation, then the videos and blog posts he does to needle Melody, OP, etc, wouldn’t be helpful imho.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      Justin hasn’t stopped working for church/state separation, although he has been hampered somewhat by a relentless campaign of character assassination which was successful in getting him to step away from working with the Secular Coalition.

      I won’t “be done with it” until this ridiculous campaign of blacklisting ends, and CFI has the power to stop it, right here and now.

    • Dhoelscher

      I wholeheartedly agree. Will be interesting to see what CFI does.

    • http://twitter.com/noelplum99 Patriarchae Persona

      Agreed.

      It still seems almost beyond possibility that they will bar Justin from attending. The only reasons i could see for his barring is crass ignorance of how it would exacerbate present tensions or a determined and deliberate attempt to do just the same.

      Of course there are some who would like to see just such a ramping up of hostilities and I suspect some of those campaigning for Justins barring fall into just such a camp.

      What is truly ironic is that under the banner of championing diversity and making all feel welcome, we have a group of people working as hard as they can to make a substantial percentage of atheists and secularists feel so unwelcome that they never even consider attending conventions in the first place and reduce diversity of thought (surely the arena where diversity matters more than any other) to a bare minimum.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      Jim – I also consider it unlikely that CFI will choose to walk the path of block/ban/blacklist in Justin’s case, but it is beyond doubt that the folks who got him to step down from SCA would like to see that happen. The process of creating a feminist safe space requires ideological conformity enforced at the point of entry: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Safe_space

  • Clare45

    I think the whole idea of a special (snowflake?) conference for women is nonsense. Why do women need a special conference? If some men like Justin are not welcome, they should specify that attendees should be women only and make the division there. It is not fair to allow only certain “approved” men to attend.
    I am surprised at the usually well-intentioned CFI for allowing certain feminists to hijack their part of the skeptical/atheist community. It should be the CFI who should draws the line in the sand. If skeptical feminists want to be heard, I am sure there are plenty of feminist specific conferences that they can attend.

    • bluharmony

      Exactly.

    • Dhoelscher

      Yes, exactly.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thaumas-Themelios/100001074236927 Thaumas Themelios

      I have no problem with a conference for women in secularism. In fact, I support the idea, provided it truly is an open conference allowing for different points of view. Why not? People can have conferences for whatever concerns them. More power to them. Likewise, if there was one for men, I’d have no problem with it either. Same reasons. People have different interests and priorities. This is a good thing.

      What I have a problem with is the unskeptical and insular us-vs-them, in-group vs. out-group behaviour that’s been going on, and the dogmatic beliefs behind it.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      I agree completely. I also support specialized conferences. What I cannot support is the campaign of character assassination against Justin, nor the ideological conformity required by the Safe Spaces Doctrine. You can have safe spaces, or you can have free inquiry. Take your pick.

  • jjramsey

    At this point, I’d say, with apologies to the late Douglas Adams, “Don’t Panic!”

    Right now, what we’ve got are rumblings on Twitter indicating an interest in wanting to ban certain people. Whether they really have the power to do so is another matter. For a pre-ban to work, they’d have to interpret their harassment policy in an obviously unreasonable manner. For the clause, “Threats of hostile conduct that are made prior to a conference may result in exclusion from the conference,” there have to be, well, threats of hostile conduct, and Vacula has made a point of not doing those.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      They have already publicly announced a post-hoc interpretive gloss on their policy, extending the “prior” language to the entire policy, not just that one clause: https://twitter.com/MelodyHensley/status/295333825972686848

    • jjramsey

      Fair point on the letter writing campaign, although I can easily see that backfire. That is, Lindsey might view it as an attempt to browbeat the CFI into complying with a mob’s demands. At least, I hope it turns out that way.

      As for Melody Hensley’s tweets, that’s a perfect example of what I mean by an obviously unreasonable interpretation, especially since the policy as a whole doesn’t even make any sense outside of the context of a conference. I’m not sure if she even thought through what she actually said. The big question is whether what she said on a personal Twitter account can actually be enforced by the CFI. I think we’ll have to wait and see on that.

    • http://twitter.com/MrsVickyCaramel Vicky Caramel

      Can’t follow the link…….. would you believe she blocked me?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=660922420 Kitty Mervine

    so sad, and it’s not just men. I know when Harriet Hall posted a FB link to the event, she was SLAMMED by Ophelia Benson. I was “I get you are angry about the tshirt, but Harriet linking to the conference in a positive way made me WANT to attend. I was, if Harriet is supportive it means every woman is welcome. I don’t want to go to a tense conference.” then WHAM, how DARE she promote this event! I was WHOA! Do I want to spend the money to attend (I do have a free place to stay) if it’s going to be “why are you talking to HER!” or am I even welcome (I do UFO and alien work and education, and I think it’s important, even if few women are involved in such work, most abductees are women and they need a female skeptic group…mine is all female). I admire so many of the people at CFI DC area….but whoa, keep the fun in the conference OK? This is vacation time, money and about being able to relax among welcoming fellow skeptics. And learn. Not, “Oh gosh, I’m not part of the right crowd, should stay home.” When Harriet and Sharon Hill aren’t welcome to even promote an event, I’m nervous. I want to promote what I, and my gang of women do in a traditionally male skeptic field, and I want to hear how other women deal with breaking into the boys club…I still may go, but I also have limited free time and money.

    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      If I had the resources to create a con, I could easily fill an entire speakers roster with brilliant skeptical women who have been alienated by the radical wing of the movement: Hall, Hill, Hale, Mayhew, Maltseva, Kirby, McGraw, Smith…

      I could go on but you probably get the idea.

    • An Ardent Skeptic

      Kitty, I appreciate your take on this matter but I would like to say that the conference is named “Women in Secularism” not “Women in Skepticism”.

      IMO, We have been blurring the lines for too long between secularism, atheism, and skepticism. As a result, we have lost focus about what skepticism is, and there are now too many people claiming to be skeptics who don’t fully understand what that claim entails. This has resulted in severe problems within the skeptic community because those of us who understand what skepticism is are being shouted down and dictated to by those making demands for action to resolve issues without providing sufficient prove that there are serious issues that require action or that their demands are an effective approach for dealing with these issues if such issues do, in fact, merit serious consideration.

      As a skeptic, I bristled at being told that I have to except claims without sufficient proof and accept dictates for problem resolution without prove that these dictates are the proper resolution to a problem, particular when I have not been given the proof that the problem even warrants any serious attention.

      (If what you have just read is confusing, it should be. That’s been the problem for the last year and a half. Claims which we are not allowed to question will always result in a confusing, unproductive, contentious debate because without sufficient evidence for a claim which we are not allowed to question, we have no fucking clue what we’re actually talking about.)

  • StevenEnglar
    • http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      Was this person a humanist and well-known secular activist, allowed to register and pay well in advance? If not, the situation is not nearly comparable. That said, I’d be in favor of allowing anti-vaxxers attend so long as they remain nondisruptive. Hopefully, they might learn something.

  • SandraKolb

    Meanwhile, at CFI LA:
    http://cfiwest.org/calendar/CafeInquiry.htm
    ———————————

    “Harassment vs. Free Speech
    Where to Draw the Line

    Acceptable speech and behavior varies from place to place and from medium to medium. Yelling something that might go unnoticed at a football game or a boxing match might be inappropriate at the opera or at a conference on evolution.
    When people are online, many interpersonal aspects of communication fade away – we lose facial expressions, body language, tone – and someone who posts may remain anonymous. This anonymity protects the author in ways not enjoyed in face-to-face communication. Do people play by different rules when online as opposed to at a public event? Can t-shirts and other clothing or jewelry insult or harass?”

    The last line is a give away as to how this talk will proceed. This talk will take place January 30 2013.

    • Chas Stewart

      Well then I can’t fucking wait to watch this!

  • MosesZD

    At no point did I take seriously the slippery slope argument that harassment policies could be easily abused by those in charge of organising conferences, as a means of excluding those with whom they have longstanding grudges or disagreements. Apparently, I was being somewhat shortsighted.

    You’re dealing with the toxic shithole of A+, whiich isn’t about atheism anymore. It’s about power and money and has been for some time. There are speaker’s fees to be earned, books to be sold, web traffic (and advertising revenue) to be had. And, of course, for so many of them — status they’ve never been able to achieve in any other endeavor or venue in their lives.