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Posted by on Oct 13, 2012 in Uncategorized | 102 comments

Atheism Plus: We’re Atheists… But We Behave Like Christians!

 

So far, the so called A+ movement has given me enough reasons to come to think of them as a godless Christian-like movement, or A.

This the way I see it.

A, we’re Athesits… but we behave like Christians:

  • We engage into verbal abuse when someone criticizes ideas we hold sacred!
  • We self-righteously pride on valuing the truth above all, but we don’t mind lying in order to push our ideology!
  • We pride ourselves as freedom and inclusion lovers, but we’ll determine who’s a “pariah” and what the limits are on your not-so-free speech!
  • We hate it when people use statistics in order to justify racism (felonies are more likely to be comitted by Latinos – so it would be understandable if you change sidewalks, for example), but we have no problem with the whole Schrödinger’s Rapist concept! So no, stop pretending we’re relabeling Humanism, we are not – that would mean we apply presumption of innocence to every single human being, regardless of their sex!
  • We patronize people who disagree with us – they just “don’t get it“.
  • We’re all for sexual freedom… as long as it doesn’t “objectify” women. (We have no comments on lesbian self-masturbation when it involves thinking of other women.) When some women, by their own free will (figuratively speaking), let themselves be objectified, we deny them agency about their own choices! Who said that’s “objectifying””? We know better what’s best for them, that’s just all!
  • We’re pro-choice, unless, you know, women choose to use their bodies in ways we disapprove of (and for that matter, ways ayatollahs disapprove of as well! How often do we get to agree? We must be doing somethin’ right, right?).
  • We actually have convinced people that an inclusive and open movement, has always lacked diversity – but, how else were we supposed to sell our movement as inclusive?
  • We say we hate faulty logic, but, by default, we think all and every one of the trolls we get are Atheists – New Atheists, to be precise.
  • We tell Christians there’s no right to not be offended, while telling our own ranks TAM should ban people who ‘offended’ the feelings of one of us.
  • We hate free market and unregulated economy (social justice, right?), but we have no saying about the monopoly of one of us selling painted rocks as jewelry. You have no right to pick up rocks, paint’em and sell them out – that business is already taken and we would like TAM to guarantee there won’t be competition!
  • We say we hate “mansplaining”, but our male followers are more than free to tell their mothers how to be a woman. You see, you can “mansplain” if you’re on the right side.
  • We avoid arguments, and instead resort to calling out name-calling… but it’s all metaphors and blogging-style, when we do it! Basically, your argument will be treated depending, not on it’s own merits, but on who you are!

That would be for now! I’m open to suggestions!

And, please, by all means, feel free to use the A logo, even if you are going to criticize me or my post (or insult me, which is highly probable).  I won’t DMCA you because: a) I dislike copyright and, b) I’m all for free speech.

If you are thinking of filing a DMCA about this, in order to get my address, well, good luck with that – I live in Colombia (yes, I’m a Latin American guy) so I think it’d be rather pointless, but it’s a free country, or so they say!.

  • Eshto

    One of the biggest parallels with creationists: Most of the people behind this movement have little background in gender issues or any social science. They lecture others on these topics and most of the time are totally misusing concepts like dominant privilege, when they sling it around as an insult on the Internet. They position themselves as experts and act superior to people who actually have degrees in, or even taught, college level Women’s Studies courses. It’s not very much different than Ray Comfort lecturing natural scientists on biology and evolution.

    • http://www.atheistrev.com/ vjack

      I’ve noticed the misuse of some of these terms too. I think you have a good point about some of them not quite getting the very cause they claim to be representing. It is almost as if being a woman who has received threats online makes one an expert of feminism. I have a feeling the actual experts on feminism could contribute something far more valuable to the discussion we ought to be having.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

        Ohh, I’d love to see a post about that!!

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Ohh, this. Yes. Thank you!!

  • Edward Clint

    I object to the phrasing “…like Christians”. I have good Christian friends; some I’ve organized debates with. Christians can be (and most often, are) good people who are not dogmatic, self-pitying drama mavens.

    I assume you meant “…like Christian demagogs” or the like, and were merely aiming for concision.

    That aside.. wow, quite a blistering inventory. If anyone wonders why the captains of A+ have generally quit or abandoned the idea, this list may help explain.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      You are right, Ed. I totally meant Christian bigots and zealots.

  • http://www.skepticink.com/incongruentelements/ Beth Erickson

    A thoughtful, well researched article. I’m looking forward to the response, if any. — Beth :)

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Thank you! Spread the word all you want (:

      -David

  • John W. Loftus

    What Ed said. This is a smackdown of Atheism plus highlighting the reasons why it’s largely dead now and only carried on by the marginalized!

    • Nicko

      Poor Johhny, marginalized and nearly dead though you are you bravely hang onto to your butt hurt. You are an inspiration! Nice confabulations as well.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Thank you!

    • http://www.atheistrev.com/ vjack

      Is it really dead though? I keep seeing claims about how their forums have over 2,000 registered members.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

        I’m not so sure it’s fully dead. I think it’s on the process.

      • Tim

        is 2000 considered a movement these days?
        Bearing in mind they had the “weight” of FtB and Skepchicks to promote the forum, I am a little surprised the membership is quite so small. Like most forums, its kept alive by a very small percentage of its membership.

        • eccles11

          Keep in mind that every spam bot, every troll and every former poster marginalised by those people are likely still going have an account there unless it was explicitly deleted.

  • Vic

    Do I sound too apologetic if I say, that the article lists the action of only a few of those associated with A+ ?

    I think many of those who joined really did want to improve a situation they saw was in need of change.

    A+ looked good on paper. I’m reluctant to throw everyone who associated with them into the same bin, who might have joined without knowing about the background story of the movement. (I mean in general. This is only tangentially related to this article, since this article does NOT throw everybody in the same bin. It’s just important to me that we avoid dismissing anybody who associated with A+ in the same way a few individuals of A+ dismissed others.)

    All in all, I’d like to share the notion of Edward Clint. There are many moderate Christians one can work together wonderfully when pursuing secular humanist goals.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Do I sound too apologetic if I say, that the article lists the action of only a few of those associated with A+ ?

      I think many of those who joined really did want to improve a situation they saw was in need of change.

      No, you don’t – not to me, anyway. Not sure what some of the A+ crowd like Myers and Watson would think of this. Gotta ask them yourself!

      A+ looked good on paper.

      For me, it never did. I mean, if you were a New Atheist when Elevatorgate happened, that should have triggered some alarms!

      All in all, I’d like to share the notion of Edward Clint. There are many moderate Christians one can work together wonderfully when pursuing secular humanist goals.

      +4

    • JRS

      Vic,

      I agree with pretty much every point you make. It is all but certain that many who initially joined A+ did so with good intent. Unfortunately, really misguided leadership and a seriously bad, even destructive motus operandi corrupted any good that might have come out of the group. Whether or not the concept is a sound one is a more difficult question to answer and I don’t pretend to know myself.

      Your closing remark regarding Edward Clint is excellent. It is always better to work together from a point of common ground. FTB/A+ reject that concept absolutely. They won’t even work together with other atheists who don’t march in lock-step with them.

  • Emily Isalwaysright

    Obviously, the author of this piece doesn’t understand the concept of free speech. Which is strange, seeing as it claimed to be a fundamental concern of theirs.

    I kinda thought anyone with even a passing appreciation of enlightenment philosophy would understand that “free speech” does not mean having to provide, or share, a platform. If you delete this comment, my free speech is not compromised. IF YOU PUT ME IN JAIL OR MAKE LAWS AGAINST MY SPEECH THEN YOU ARE VIOLATING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. See the HUGE AND OBVIOUS difference?

    People and groups can agree amongst themselves on their own standards. It’s really fucking simple. If you don’t like A+ standards, then leave them alone and play in your own sandbox. Everyone gets a sandbox, and we get to say who plays in our sandbox and what the rules are. You see?

    Also, John Loftus, the POINT of A+ is that is for “the marginalised” and those who understand what marginalisation is like. It’s supposed to be space where the marginalised can be free from the putdowns and abuse they incur everywhere, sometimes more subtle, sometimes less. Do you know what marginalisation is like? Do you know how it affects people to be judged and / or excluded and / or devalued on the basis of something beyond their control, like their gender or sexuality or race or disability?

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Obviously! Threatening men with labeling as rapists just because they ask for coffee and silencing them… that ain’t free speech! It’s ‘privilege‘!

      • Emily Isalwaysright

        That is NOT what happened. You are tendentiously mischaracterising events.

        Also, you ignored the other points in my criticism.

        • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

          Ohh, so sorry! How’s this not you thinking that I am acting on bad faith? By all means, please enlighten me!

          Let me answer point by point, then.

          Obviously, the author of this piece doesn’t understand the concept of free speech.

          Obviously you can use ad hominem attacks.

          If you don’t like A+ standards, then leave them alone and play in your own sandbox. Everyone gets a sandbox, and we get to say who plays in our sandbox and what the rules are. You see?

          Yeah… the thing is, you couldn’t leave the rest alone!! You go from sandbox to sandbox and tell why you are somehow morally superior! And you are having a negative impact on real life issues, like getting people fired, so don’t you come here to say it’s just a sandboxes’ problem. Don’t be such a hypocrite, would you?

          the POINT of A+ is that is for “the marginalised” and those who understand what marginalisation is like

          Yeah, poor PZ Myers and Rebecca Watson have it so hard on their lives!! Poor little things!

          Do you know what marginalisation is like?

          No. We, just like Richard Dawkins, happen to be Atheists who have never been, ever, marginalised! Ohh, wait…

          Do you know how it affects people to be judged and / or excluded and / or devalued on the basis of something beyond their control, like their gender or sexuality or race or disability?

          I do – I have to get a VISA in order to get outta my country!!! How’s that for prejudice?!? And I’ll get to not-be-a-rapist; thank you for that, I guess!!

          Happy now? Any more nonsense to add, and make me waste my time with?

          • Emily Isalwaysright

            “Obviously you can use ad hominem attacks.” Oh dear: clearly you don’t understand the ad hominem fallacy either!

            The reason what I said was not an ad hominem is because your statements showed that you did not understand free speech (and I explained where your understanding went wrong). It stands to reason that if someone has expressed a misunderstanding of a topic, then they don’t understand the topic.

            This is in contrast to an ad hominem, which takes the form of “person x is a y, therefore person x is wrong.” Whereas my statement took the form “person x is mistaken about z, therefore x doesn’t understand z.”

            Also, I am not a hypocrite: my point about sandboxes was about principles. I am not accountable for the behaviour of others. And I am interested in what you are saying: I am in the dark about anyone getting anyone else fired for saying things they disagreed with. I’d like to know more: can you please give me some links or point me in the right direction?

            Um, I don’t think A+ is for PZ and RW per se. It’s a safe space for the marginalised, ie. women, glbt people, etc.

            My question re “do you know what it feels like to be marginalised” was in good faith. Do you know, really? Perhaps as an atheist in a religious community, for example?

          • Paulo Pinheiro

            So, let’s unify the atheist movement by creating as many sand boxes as we can based on criteria not derivable from atheism itself? Wow, way to go!

          • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

            Touché!

        • http://twitter.com/Iamcuriousblue Iamcuriousblue

          What Avant Garde said about sandboxes, etc. Sorry, but Aplussers saying “everybody gets their sandbox” is an argument in bad faith. If so, why the ongoing campaigns to have people drummed out of the secular movement?

          How about the free speech of MRA John the Other? Who was the target of “direct action” by a mob led by Nick Joliet (aka Setar), a well-known A+ figure. That’s at least one person who lawful free speech rights have been directly violated by A+.

          The smear campaign against Justin Vacula is another prime example. Last I checked, the Secular Coalition is not A+, you y’all are awfully demanding about who gets to be leaders in that organization. Now this may not exactly be the government cracking down, but it is an attempt to disallow dissent against A+ from within the secular movement. Intellectual liberty within our movement is a principal damn well worth standing up for, and one that A+ is decidedly on the wrong side of.

          • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

            The smear campaign against Justin Vacula is another prime example. Last I checked, the Secular Coalition is not A+, you y’all are awfully demanding about who gets to be leaders in that organization. Now this may not exactly be the government cracking down, but it is an attempt to disallow dissent against A+ from within the secular movement. Intellectual liberty within our movement is a principal damn well worth standing up for, and one that A+ is decidedly on the wrong side of.

            Exactly!

    • Cormac

      The problem, of course, with this bullshit apology for the Ape Lusters is that it would work if the Ape Lusters stayed in their sandbox.

      Unfortunately, the don’t. They reach out and have negative real-world impact – like forcing people to resign, and so on.

      Have another read of the article posted above. It is a litany of the abuse that Ape Lusters have meted out.

      The sooner it implodes the better.

      I wonder if the rumour that one of the mods is a Troll Mole are true. How funny it will be if it is.

    • Copyleft

      And just like Christian zealots, they regularly insist that they ‘only want to be left alone’ when in fact they insist on imposing their standards and rules on all atheists everywhere. Just ask Justin Vacula how their ‘live and let live’ posture works in practice.

      The core problem the plussers have is that they’re trying to unite skepticism with an unquestioned dogmatic version of extreme feminism… and that combination just can’t work.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

        Exactly my thoughts on this!

  • Altair

    Excellent article, you point out in a very detailed and documented manner the 100 flavors of crazy A+ contains.
    A big applause and a virtual handshake from a fellow Colombian, it’s good to know there are others around interested in these issues.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Thank you, Altair! I’m glad you liked it!

      I hadn’t met another Colombian Atheist that diliked A+! This is a first, and it’s nice. Actually, just yesterday, we held the October’s AAAB (Bogotá’s Atheists & Agnostics Association) meeting, curiously enough, at a feminist house. One of the guys issued the whole mainstream Atheism hates Rebecca Watson for her being a woman who opposes ‘patriarchy’! I then set the record straight: people hate her for playing a victim and accusing every man out there of being a potential rapist.

      • Altair

        I didn’t know such an association existed in Bogota. I’m not a full fledged atheist, I alternate between an agnostic and wanting to believe, but I find that I agree with most of the ideas of atheists. I’m more into skepticism, I got into it by reading James Randi’s articles and then the JREF forum.

        I came into this whole A+ thing from the gender perspective, after reading the 1000s or articles in Pharyngula going about the sacred male privilege. That got me reading on sites about gender stuff, anti-feminism and male rights.
        So I now think of myself as an egalitarian, who is really tired of the whole “violence against women” obsession that’s becoming prevalent in Colombia.

        Recently I’ve been posting on Colombian newspapers in related articles, some blogs about A+ and usually on Youtube. I had an .. interesting conversation with an A+ member in Matt Dillahunty’s video “OK with ban but not with blame”.

        The meeting you had sounded really interesting. It would be extremely weird to discuss all this in spanish :), although I’d probably get in a debate with the feminist members of the group.

        Again, nice to meet you, and I hope we can continue talking about this, it’s really interesting to find out this is going on in my city without me suspecting it.

        • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

          Hahaha, it would be nice to have you come over! We’re meeting monthly! Maybe you would like to go to the November gathering? Check out our Facebook fanpage (we’re working on our webpage, so that’s what we got for the time being).

          Cheers,

          -D

  • bluharmony

    Yeah, the Christians I know are much, much better than that. I’ve said it before (and was instantly trashed in blogs + had my home address posted, which, they told me, was fine to do), but shame on the people who started this mess.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Yeah, the Christians I know are much, much better than that.

      Sure – zealots are not everything there is in Christianity!

      I’ve said it before (and was instantly trashed in blogs + had my home address posted, which, they told me, was fine to do), but shame on the people who started this mess.

      Wait, WHAT?!? Do you have a link or screencap or something about that?!?

  • Ken

    Despite being a supporter of feminism, equal rights for all and the progressive agenda as a whole I was banned from there because I disagreed with the idea that all males are potential rapists. I was labeled ‘an enemy of all things feminist’ in the reason for the banning.

    The place and the movement is toxic.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      The place and the movement is toxic.

      I know. I was bullied by the Skepchick Spain-based staff when I disagreed with them!

  • JRS

    Excellent compilation. I had one brief encounter with the A+ crowd and was instantly marginalized as being unqualified and unwelcome to join or comment when I had the temerity to suggest their methods were creating a very serious PR problem for the group. Somehow that qualified me as a misogynist, too. Looks like my predictions of bad PR are coming to pass.

    The group and it’s members are almost universally toxic. Note the response posted by the most vocal FTB/A+ ‘bot to this thread is the only one to use foul language and an overtly aggressive tone. I was so motivated by the way my attempt at helping the group was dismissed that I have become a bit of an anti-A+ activist. I shared this blog post on two other sites already and will continue to spread it. Well done, Avante Garde.

    • Emily Isalwaysright

      I’m not a bot: I’ve argued in the same manner and with the same tone AGAINST some of the posters at ftb. And I think most adults are OK with a bit of swearing. I certainly was not, and am not, abusive, discriminatory or prejudicial.

      It’s a pity you ignored my ACTUAL ARGUMENTS about what constitutes free speech.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

        I’ve argued in the same manner and with the same tone AGAINST some of the posters at ftb.

        Yeah, well, I’d love to see some evidence of that.

        I certainly was not, and am not, abusive, discriminatory or prejudicial.

        Help me through this: What’s your take on the Schrödinger’s Rapist? Could you link to any valid criticism of A+, or is it all just lies and meanies tendentiously mischaracterising events.

        • Emily Isalwaysright

          Meh, do I have to get the links to my disagreements on FTB? I don’t know how to link to specific comments, and it will be such a pain to go trawling through it. Honestly: I’m not a side-taker-for-the-sake-of-side-taking. I’ll do it if you really want, but I’d prefer if you just took my word!

          Hmmm Schrodinger’s Rapist. Well, I can see how framing things in that way would be offensive to many men. So I don’t think the language is necessarily all that useful, but I can tell you, that as a woman, I am very uncomfortable when I am in a situation where I am a) out in public; b) there is an unknown man in close proximity; and c) we are not visible to anyone else. I’ve never been raped, so clearly the odds on it happening are low, but I’ve been followed, called to and verbally abused so many times I’ve lost count. But of course, the overwhelming majority of men I encounter are either lovely or neutral.

          Does that help?

          • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

            do I have to get the links to my disagreements on FTB?

            Well, you don’t have to, but it’s customary for us to take your word! Don’t take this the wrong way: you’ve been more polite than any other A+er I can remember, but this is how we do things here! If not so many people had taken Myers’ word at face value, for example, things might be different now, with a better movement, instead of a bully side telling us how awful we are.

            Schrodinger’s Rapist. Well, I can see how framing things in that way would be offensive to many men.

            It’s not about framing. It’s about basic human rights!

            I can tell you, that as a woman, I am very uncomfortable when I am in a situation where I am a) out in public; b) there is an unknown man in close proximity; and c) we are not visible to anyone else.

            Yeah, I’m sorry that’s how you feel. Too many people feel threatened when there’s a black guy nearby! That’s no justification for anything!

            I’ve never been raped

            I’m glad – no one should go throught that!

            I’ve been followed, called to and verbally abused so many times I’ve lost count. But of course, the overwhelming majority of men I encounter are either lovely or neutral.

            Does that help?

            For me, it does. I’m sorry you were followed or verbally abused and I’m sorry the A+ leaders think this can be reverted by just verbally abusing everyone else.

          • http://twitter.com/Iamcuriousblue Iamcuriousblue

            Actually, of the many issues I have with A+, “Schrodinger’s Rapist” isn’t one of them. I certainly *get* the idea that to a woman who’s a complete stranger to me, she has no idea whether I’m a bad guy or not, or what my intentions are. I certainly wouldn’t ask anybody to give their trust away just to make me feel better about myself.

            Conversely, I expect the same courtesy be extended to me, and if I’m mistrustful or otherwise not flag waving for your team, I think my instincts should be similarly respected. I shouldn’t be expected to give my trust away, either!

      • JRS

        ‘bot’, in this context, is a reference to the fact that the FTB/A+ response is always the same and very predictable – overtly aggressive and offended by any dissent or disagreement.

        I didn’t respond to your statements on free speech because it was irrelevant and sidestepped the actual issue, which others are handling well enough in other posts. Further, my experience with FTB/A+ types is that attempting to address anything directly is an utter waste of time. More telling is your limited focus on one item while ignoring a veritable laundry list of documented examples that Avante Garde has provided. Pity, that.

        • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

          the FTB/A+ response is always the same and very predictable – overtly aggressive and offended by any dissent or disagreement.

          The first thing, an ad hominem attack.

          More telling is your limited focus on one item while ignoring a veritable laundry list of documented examples that Avante Garde has provided. Pity, that.

          Touché!

          • JRS

            ‘Ad hominem’ or simple statement of fact? Spend some time perusing some of these discussions on Skeptic Ink and the answer becomes quickly apparent. Hint: the answer isn’t ‘ad hominem’.

          • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

            I meant: the first thing she wrote was that I didn’t know what free speech is. That’s what I was saying! Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear!

        • Emily Isalwaysright

          Actually, the conceptual analysis of free speech I offered has yet to be engaged with.

          Secondly, please show me where I said something offensive.

          Thirdly, do I really have to reply to EVERY SINGLE POINT that Avante Garde listed in order for you to engage me with ANY of them? Why don’t you actually engage with the points I actually engaged with? Starting with my conceptual analysis of free speech.

          • Emily Isalwaysright

            “I meant: the first thing she wrote was that I didn’t know what free speech is. That’s what I was saying! Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear!”

            I spelled out the reasons above why my criticism was justified. Now can you please answer my actual criticism?

            I still think you don’t understand free speech.

          • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

            Now can you please answer my actual criticism?

            Gladly:

            I kinda thought anyone with even a passing appreciation of enlightenment philosophy would understand that “free speech” does not mean having to provide, or share, a platform. If you delete this comment, my free speech is not compromised. IF YOU PUT ME IN JAIL OR MAKE LAWS AGAINST MY SPEECH THEN YOU ARE VIOLATING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. See the HUGE AND OBVIOUS difference?

            Telling guys or girls, or anyone they can’t say some things in an elevator (and promoting policies prohibiting that) – that’s censorship! Asking to ban t-shirts? That’s censorship at it’s worst!

            I still think you don’t understand free speech.

            That certainly is neither my problem, nor my concern.

          • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

            do I really have to reply to EVERY SINGLE POINT that Avante Garde listed in order for you to engage me with ANY of them?

            That’s not the point. The point is: were you aware of any of the other points I raised? If so, do you think I’m wrong on all and every single one of them? If no, what do you think now, knowing this whole new perspective?

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Excellent compilation. [...] Well done, Avante Garde.

      Thank you!

      I shared this blog post on two other sites already and will continue to spread it.

      That should be interesting! Let me know how that goes, please!! And thanks for the share!

  • bluharmony

    Wow, these Tim Minchin lyrics: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=14661
    are beyond belief (and apparently beyond criticism) — not only does he call god a cunt, but he refers to privileged white bitches with their eye problems, yet he’s on RW’s side, so it doesn’t matter. Just like RW herself can say “pussy” and “twat” all she likes, and that’s fine too. There are so many double standards that it’s impossible to keep track of them all.

    • Emily Isalwaysright

      Did RW explicitly approve of Tim Minchin’s usage of “cunt” and “bitch”? If not, you’re making unjustified assumptions.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

        Did RW explicitly approve of Tim Minchin’s usage of “cunt” and “bitch”? If not, you’re making unjustified assumptions.

        Actually I wrote “… but we don’t care when Tim Minchin does it“. And I think she not calling that out is exactly that – she doesn’t care. I didn’t say she explicitly approved.

      • http://twitter.com/ikonografer ikonografer

        actually, a+theism logic dictates that since all men are rapists until proved otherwise (read schrodinger’s rapist), so to is RW: unless she explicitly makes a statement disavowing minchin’s use of ‘cunt’ and ‘bitch’, it can be presumed that she approves of minchin’s language

        • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

          Touché!

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

      Exactly – this whole A+ thing is one big giant double standard of self-righteousness!

  • Pingback: The Lessons Learned From the Demise of Atheism + | Debunking Christianity

  • http://ateorizar.com Manolo Matos

    Damn, you had me reading and watching videos for hours. I believe Atheism + is on the decline. I think it imploded after the Matt D. incident on their forum. I knew there was a reason why I didn’t read Ophelia Benson, Rebeca Watson and company… Too much drama, too much whininess. Thanks for all the information.

    • http://berrycomputers.net.au Michael J

      What was the Matt incident?

      Another item to add to the list above is simply the misuse of the word misogynist. This means women haters where the issues discussed (where there are actual issues) is male chauvinism. I think this parallels creationists calling everybody who believes in evolution an atheist.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com Avant Garde

        What was the Matt incident?

        This!

        Another item to add to the list above is simply the misuse of the word misogynist. This means women haters where the issues discussed (where there are actual issues) is male chauvinism. I think this parallels creationists calling everybody who believes in evolution an atheist.

        Yeah… it a complete and total witch-hunt by the book!

    • http://iamchristianiamanatheist.blogspot.kr/ Christian Kemp

      I think Matt exposed a huge error in the so called social justice movement. He applied a skeptical attitude and showed the movement they are wrong, yet the still continue like a bunch of babies.

      By the way love the emblem.

      • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

        What’s more telling: Dillahunty stayen on their ranks after this.

        Spread the emblem as much as you like (:

  • PA_Year_of_the_Bible

    Myers’s 15 minutes of fame is up.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      I really hope so!

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  • Steve Vanden-Eykel

    Here’s one. A+ tells you that if you haven’t made a scholarly study of feminism, you’re not qualified to criticize it. But they hate when Christians say the same thing about theology, so much that they invented a term for it: the Courtier’s Reply.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      Ohh, I didn’t know they called it that. But it’s exactly what they do. It could be Watson’s Reply, as well.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/NaomiChambers Naomi Chambers

    well done

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      Thank you!! Please share it all you want!

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/NaomiChambers Naomi Chambers
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  • http://twitter.com/itsn8o itsn8o

    Seeing how this neo-feminism is essentially a religion, it’s no surprise they act like the religious.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      No, it’s not a surprise. The surprise parte came when these people were some of the key figures of New Atheism.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Oliver-Crangle/100003079637271 Oliver Crangle

    Brilliant. Sad, but brilliant.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      Indeed it is.

  • True Liberal Nexus

    Thank you for this damning exposé of the A+ thought police! It provided indispensable material for a post I’ve just written. Years ago, I encountered the radfem bullying and crazytalk in a political venue, and was dismayed to find them cropping up again the atheism movement.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      Ohh, you’re welcome! I’m glad you found it useful.

      Please, I’d like to read your post on this; where can I find it?

      Have a great day!

  • Alan Rick

    Nicely done!

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      Thank you!

  • Xnerdz

    I think you’ve wrote this load of hatred BS about Atheists because you’re pissed to realize that your God is not real. Another proof that theists are afraid of reality!

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Daosorios

      Well, that’s your problem. I wrote about Atheism Plus being myself an Atheist. This is not about every Atheist out there.

  • MosesZD

    And it’s Saturday, May 18th, 2013 and the Women in Secularism conference has blown up because a man dared to give this speech. One that only a thin-skinned, professional victim could take any material offense with…

    http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/my_talk_at_wis2/

    Just like Matt Dillahunty found out the hard way, so did Lindsay. You can’t negotiate or reason with fundamentalists on their personal jihad. .

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      I totally agree with you! I should add this example to this post!

  • MosesZD

    Curious to when this was last updated…

  • ThePrussian

    HAH! Nice. Can’t believe I have only just seen this :)

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      Glad you liked it! Feel free to share it all you want and point here anytime you’re talking about these people and their ilk ;)

  • rosgori

    El link “good, intelligent, honest, hard-working people” no funciona

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      Gracias, voy a revisarlo

  • Atheist Loki

    Awesomsauce

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      I’d love to hear suggestions!

      • Atheist Loki

        We blindly accuse individuals of sexual crimes and if you question it, then you are a woman hating rape apologist. However, if any accusations are levied against our people, they are lies being spread by the patriarchy.

        • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

          Yes, this! But I’d rahter wait and see how things go in court before going any closer to that scenario!

  • Paulo Pinheiro

    I got this in a comment and response section on an article about @+:

    “Fascinating to watch this all play out.”

    “Oh, absolutely. This is the birth of a new cult. Its got it all, persecution, enemies, dogma, holier than thou leaders, exclusion of apostates. This would make a grand sociological study project as they are self documenting on the web. You now just need to infiltrate the back channel e-mail list where all the back stabbing is happening.”

    Yep, that resumes and describes @+ pretty darn well :-)

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      Yeah, it kinda sums it up quite nicely!

  • Franken Stein

    I’m not sure what the point of A+ is or why it exists. They should just be athiests in their preexisting feminists groups.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      I dunno either!

  • Arturo Veg

    We believe that humans are the special species in Earth and so we are justified for exploiting non-human animals for whatever we want. Just as Christians!!

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      Ohh, a dog left a comment on my blog! Wow! Ohh, wait…

  • Pingback: Atheism Plus: We’re Atheists… But We Behave Like Christians! | Life in Anglo-America

  • NEIL C. REINHARDT

    FIRST I CERTAIN AGEE WITH THE ARTICLE.

    SECOND, I AM A 79 YEAR OLD AGNOSTIC ATHEIST WHO HAS BEEN AN ATHEIST FOR 70 YEARS AND AND A MORE ACTIVE THAN MOST, ATHEIST ACTIVIST FOR OVER FIFTY YEARS. I HAVE BELONGED TO MANY ATHEIST GROUPS AND I AM A DUES PAYING MEMBER OF FOUR OF THEM NOW. I’M ALSO ONE OF THOSE WHO FOUNDED THE LARGE LOS ANGELES, “ATHEISTS UNITED” GROUP IN 1983.SO I THINK I AM WELL QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I HAVE FOUND TO BE TRUE ABOUT NEARLY ALL ATHEISTS.

    IT IS THEY WILL SIMPLY DENY ANY FACTS WHICH MAY PROVE THEY ARE WRONG AS QUICKLY AS CHRISTIANS WILL DENY THE FACTS ON ANYTHING WHICH DISAGREES WITH THEIR RELIGION!

    THE ONLY TIME NEARLY ALL ATHEISTS USE COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC IS ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF ONE OR MORE GODS. THE REST OF THE TIME, THEY ARE TOTALLY CLUELESS!.

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